Forrest Fenn Book Club, The Thrill of the Chase, Ch 8: “Surviving Myself”


okay hello and welcome to a Gypsys kiss
the book club I’m Shelley Carney and I’m Toby Younis stick with us a couple
of seconds and we will talk about chapter 8 in Forrest Fenn’s thrill of
the chase entitled surviving myself and you’re back and we’re back so let’s
start off with housekeeping and we want to thank our moderators today our
moderators are Jimmy fast man in the barn
Joel Lewicki Brian Eagle and Jason Younis and we want to just give them a round of
applause man the barn is already in the house for doing such a great job and
keeping our chat positive and focused and helping to answer questions when
we’re unavailable to do so so thank you so much for doing that guys our
presentation today will be from the thrill of the chase chapter eight
surviving myself followed by open Q&A open Q&A so let’s start off with anything
related to the chapter right and the book and then we can move on from there
sounds good okay are we ready to get started
no we have to drink wine first Oh so let me tell you let me tell you about our
wine or wine is Velarde Riesling the grapes are actually grown in Velarde and
we bought this at the Black Mesa winery when we were coming back from our trip
up north the Black Mesa is in Velarde it’s one of the better wineries in the
area they have a broad variety variety of wines and they’re really good people
so we like stopping there that’s our Cheers that’s our and but and
these are glasses that I got from them as a gift several years ago and I still
have them they’re very nice glasses yeah so when you go there and do it a
wine tasting they include the glass – yeah to all of us to all of us Cheers oh it’s sweet for a Riesling yeah I do
love the black mesa wines they tend to be a little bit sweeter like
that um just the Riesling really um most of their wines are more on the dry side
they do have a sister winery that makes a sweeter varieties I think
it’s the San Juan all right okay so let’s take off here so why don’t you introduce
the chapter and we’ll uh we’ll start all right and to give today’s chapter from
the thrill of the chase chapter eight surviving myself is on pages 36 through
41 we have several pictures in there including the one of Forrest Fenn there
you see with his sister June and of course he’s pointing a little cap pistol
towards the camera it seems like he enjoyed playing with
guns as a child which I think of that era most boys did play with guns you did
I would agree yeah I feel like like we all owned a BB gun at one time or the
other I even had a cap pistol yeah when I was
a kid we had lots of pistols lots of rifles yeah somebody was talking about
there was a conversation a couple of weeks ago maybe a month ago
about going up to Denver and going to the Montgomery Ward warehouse store we
used to do that and I always walked out of there with some sort of toy weapon
because my dad would buy it for me but I think of that generation most of us had
played with toy guns as kids as the next generation came up they found so many
other things to play with but what was interesting is we played a
lot of army and we’d take up sides and the girls would play we play the the
soldiers and the girls would play nurses and so it was always fun my sister was a
good nurse every time I was wounded like three times a battle what did you think
generally of this chapter generally of the chapter I thought it was you know a
nice little snippet of Forrest Fenn’s life growing up and what it was like to
live in a middle-class family in those times and that’s what I would call it I
think sometimes he thinks of himself as not middle class but it sounds very
middle-class to me well you know I I consider when you have a father who has
a degree and was a teacher and a principal of a school I think that would
be leaning towards the white collar rather than the blue collars so maybe
they didn’t have as much money because teachers are you know notoriously
underpaid yeah but they they would have that status of his father having that
degree I believe mmm so I want to remind everybody that Shelley makes a
comprehensive set of notes to go along with each one of these chapters I add to
them my what little I can she does a really good job with the analysis and at
the end of all of this we’re gonna put them together in a in an e-book and
it’ll make it downloadable and you’ll have that to refer to Bryan Eagle I
didn’t think you were that old to have candy cigarettes but I remember them too
really yeah I think I remember my brother and I we would take the soda pop
bottles the glass ones then we’d take them back to the Circle K to get our
money you know we’d get change from it and our parents let us have that money
to buy candy or whatever we wanted from the circle K so that’s sometimes we’d
get the candy cigarettes that in mind we didn’t have circle K’s we had Louie’s
drugstore where you bought everything from comic books to my mother’s
necessary supplies then I would be sent over and he would wrap them in a brown
plain wrapper and send me home again yay okay so let’s get started we’re on page 36
paragraph 3 in those days the noon meal was called dinner and we had meat only
on Sunday after church dad usually killed the chicken and Skippy and I
would pluck the feathers which was really hard we experimented dipping the
dead thing in scalding water first and that helped a little but the smell was
terrible finally we just grabbed a bunch of feathers and jerk as best as we could
which actually is the best way to de-feather a chicken finally we just
grabbed so let’s see mom was world class at frying chicken and my sister June
always helped we were a close family and everyone but mom and dad pitched in with
doing the dishes and my brother Skippy of course he always had some more urgent
calling elsewhere did you get out of doing the dishes since you were the
oldest no and then the next one was my sister Rita who was our little Queen and
could do nothing wrong and didn’t have to do anything except look adorable in
those white little frilly dresses and all right so family came out there was a
little Freudian stuff in there huh resentment Fenn recounts the chores the
family performed together which is a good history lesson for younger
generations he also has a way of making his portion of the chores seem bigger
than the other children once again claiming the not fair attitude of the
middle child no I’m gonna ask you to be careful with the desk because I it’s all
connected so we shake the camera and they’re going on it looks like we’re in
an earthquake you keep saying that but it’s what happened before okay
okay did you have anything to add I did so this is what was interesting to me
about this chapter is Fenn establishes this a really good job of establishing
his relationship and with the family members in the context of the family so
the comment especially at the end of this at the end of this chat of the
paragraph rather and my brother Skippy of course of course
my brother Skippy he always had some urgent calling elsewhere that urgent
calling elsewhere through the remainder of his life eventually cost him his life
because he was always doing something else you know and that something else
had to do with treasure hunting and unless you’re looking for a treasure
somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe and you’re spending a lot of
time in the oceans you’re putting your life significantly at risk every day and
I think Fenn establishes that relationship with him he wasn’t serving
twenty years in the Air Force you know he wasn’t building a gallery in Santa Fe
he was doing something else but oldest older children man it’s hard to tie them
down to any one thing you know they want to be busy and they want to be doing
their own thing and building their own their own lives you know page 37 paragraph four I’m up my father
gave me a daisy air rifle for my eighth birthday and I used to shoot it all the
time I even taped magazine pictures to the wall in my room and shot at people
usually guys who were wearing black hats I pretended to be Hopalong Cassidy how many people remember who Hopalong Cassidy was on and down to page 38 paragraph one on
Saturdays I’d go up behind our house to shoot meadowlarks for supper page 38
paragraph two since I brought the food home I was higher on the food chain than
my siblings at least it was fun thinking that way
page 38 paragraph 3 we always made a big deal out of taking a bite and saying
mom great strawberry shortcake I can still remember how much my dessert
tasted just like what I asked for and in my fantasy way it was so Fenn recalls a
rich fantasy life that enhanced the time he spent at home with
family and just the idea of Daisy air rifle and some of the other things that
made me think that he perhaps saw the movie A Christmas Story and related to
that and and it influenced the way he wrote this in his memories he shares his
sense of accomplishment his pride in being a boy growing into a man who could
protect and provide for his family he also gives us a sensory taste of the
special treats he fondly remembers his mother providing for the children you
know I’m going to switch us over to the fullscreen we really don’t need the
slides at this point what he’s like yeah say hi oh hi again today again this was
an expression of his perceptions and I always wonder if if some of those
perceptions he shared growing up because there were certain elements of his life
he didn’t like getting spanked any more than anybody else liked getting spanked
he didn’t like getting admonished by his teacher any more than anybody else at
that age would get would like getting admonished by their teacher but in some
cases he gets away from that negative and finds a lot of positive in things
and I get a sense that Fenn struggled at some point with the yin and yang in his
life and worked hard to start moving away from the yang and in towards the
end towards the light and I get a sense towards the end of his life yeah he did
except for those moments I mean you can’t be raided by the FBI for example
and not have a negative feeling about life you can’t find out that you’ve
wasted a bunch of time on your search and not feel a little negative for a
little while but he strikes me as a man who has learned how to find the positive
in things and and not the negative and I think it started right about this age
page for every paragraph – Jun ever got switched because she probably did
everything right she was the family pet being both female and the youngest and
all I remember one time I made her so mad she
kicked at me with as hard as she could if there had been time to think and I
could have weighed the difference between being kicked by my little sister
and getting switched by my father I probably would have taken the switching
again sometimes principle is reason enough to abandon logic no matter how
much it hurts I found that statement interesting go
ahead mayor analysis well fan harbors some resentment toward his sister and
women in general as it seems he she gets special treatment from his father
what other principles were important enough for fen to abandon logic perhaps
hiding the treasure and walking away from it because he had decided to do it
and told everyone that he would that principle of being a man of his word
would prompt him to follow through and leave the treasure behind no matter how
much it hurt I agree I think this is the the single most important sentence when
it comes to disproving someone’s comment that is this is a hoax because what he
tells us is that the the logic of this situation would have said don’t do this
don’t you’re crazy there’s a dozen reasons like you could stand there and
imagine a dozen reasons that you shouldn’t leave this there from
everything from somebody’s gonna find it before you want them to and before you
have that you know – it’s going to waste away before he he lives a long enough
life to enjoy the fact that the treasure was hidden so there’s all these reasons
all these logical rational reasons not to do what it just did
but principle says to him you promised yourself and this has been a significant
part of your life now for the past 15 20 25 years and you can’t walk away from it
now you can’t walk away from the principle now you can walk away from the
logic now and and I think it’s a real good substantiation of his position on
the matter of whether it’s a hoax or not and he always asks when someone asks him
did you really hide a treasure uh-huh his response to that question
generally speaking is especially when he’s on TV he responds with and I’m
paraphrasing what could I do to prove it to you mm-hmm what is it that I could do
other than show you I am a man of high principle and I certainly have as you’re
sitting there of course in his living room looking at all the things that he’s
acquired over his life so you know he’s acquired these things enough to have
described it and photographed and then so what else could he do
short of taking you to the initiative sort of taking you to the treasure right
what else can I do how can I prove to you I am a man of principles right page
41 paragraph 2 sometimes when it wasn’t too cold I’d get even with my father for
switching me by jumping out of the window by my bed and walking down to the
cemetery which was just the block north of our house it took guts to go in there
when it was dark with no moon I still remember the sense of accomplishment I
felt when I sat on some dead guy’s grave marker
I wasn’t even afraid a kid really has time to think in a graveyard well his chapters called surviving
myself and fen recalls the many times he was appreciated for being helpful as a
child and switched for disobeying defying or upsetting his father at one
point he refers to the spankings as motivational training although this
style of upbringing was common and considered good parenting at that time
we can see that ultimately forced been felt unfairly attacked when he says he’d
get even with his father by walking to the cemetery at night this reminds me
again of the scene in a Christmas story where Ralphie imagines that his family
will be sorry that he went blind because he had soap
put in his mouth do you remember that at that scene and he’s like he’s all mad
because he had said a bad word and he knew he said a bad word he was going to
get in trouble and then his mom put soap in his mouth I mean sit there with it
for five minutes and then he could take it out
and then he was crying and he was in his room and he was upset and then he was
imagining all the terrible things that were gonna happen and how his his
parents would be sorry when he went blind because he had stoven is now and I
think I think we can all relate to that feeling as children that we feel like
we’re put upon we’re misunderstood and we’re punished for things that we
shouldn’t be and you know a life is harsh and I think it brings that back
for us what do you think I’m I’m a big fan of testing yourself and it’s these
little things in life that you do to test yourself you know going into a
graveyard at night jumping off a bridge as he does in once upon a while walking
across the suspension bridge you know that that doesn’t seem rational at the
time so I think these are the things that a child would do all through not
only as childhood but is more mature years where he develops those various
Courage’s to do the things to to when somebody says do you want to learn to
fire fighter aircraft high-performance fighter aircraft you go like sure yeah
you know well and his brother had flown it so at that point he said skipping
into it I want to try it right yeah and not only try it but move from flying a
you know washing machine to flying a single-engine winged aircraft to not not
that that’s not what he flew tonight he flew a high performance jet fighter
aircraft and then after he was in the service he bought himself you know piper
Malibu which is basically a high-performance personal aircraft so he
accomplished things in his own name I think so um what I got from this was
this tells us that fin will resentfully remove himself from a place where he
feels criticized or unappreciated which means you know maybe that’s one of
the reasons he pulls back sometimes he felt a sense of accomplishment when he
faced the dark graveyard alone much the same as looking back on his life and
feeling a sense of accomplishment as he thinks about his past and how he faces
death alone questions to ponder when was he diagnosed with cancer did he anyone
when he was – I’m sorry when he was diagnosed with cancer did he feel
unfairly punished did he then transfer that feeling of they’ll be sorry when
I’m gone – leaving a treasure behind so that others would recognize that they
missed him of all the places that phen could go why did he choose the cemetery
why are some of the places where a kid can go where what are some of the places
when where a kid go I see some of the other place yeah what are some of the
other places where a kid can go to be alone and think and could that indicate
what a special place he would want to hide his treasure and lay down with it
to die so one of the things that we have always talked about is that we wondered
whether or not this special place that he had found him for himself obviously
we don’t think it’s a cemetery in the classic in the classic I want to say
white people’s but that’s not it’s just not white people’s way the difference
between the way we bury our dead and the way say the Native American tribes bury
their dead at in earlier times was we put everybody in the ground
the tribes didn’t they put him above the ground they put him in the air and they
allowed them to decompose at their own pace rather than putting him in the
ground with you know something to help them decompose so one of the things I
always wondered about with it with the number of times he mentioned a cemetery
and the number of times he mentioned his special place I started to wonder
whether or not the the cemetery he was referring to as his it could have been
his special place but not the traditional cemetery that we
think of but maybe perhaps that’s redundant but perhaps the cemetery that
a Native American might find amenable to them so well that’s good I’m ready you
ready ready for ready for that so go ahead and take me to let’s go let’s go
to the chat and go to Q&A and I’m gonna pop this in here for just a second
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we’re full screen and I’m gonna give you a chat up here so you don’t have to look
down okay is that fair okay so that’s the top of
your chapter so good afternoon everybody I love to man in the barn where’s Bobby
that’s a new name Eric Schmidt hi dr. Brown hello from Fort Collins Dave
Erickson hi Kyle Lambert it’s been a while since we saw you Kyle and now I
guess it’ll be another little while journeymen hi
dagmar did it hello Rick plank hello from Cincinnati to call Thomas hey
Ben Parisi thanks Toby welcome Paul would howdy everyone Ben wanted to get
in touch with Illinois ghosts oh I see you’re welcome Ben mm-hmm Paul would
Eric Schmidt just sound effects somebody was requesting some the other day
Brian Eagles here David oh good morning from Lake Tahoe Bridge McCain from Iowa
JT from Texas and guest Dagmar Cynthia does have an email she lists it on her
website chasing Ben’s treasure chasing Fenn’s treasure calm is her blog
and she also has a contacts page that you can click on and send her a message
by the contacts page which does go to our email and then she’ll start the
email conversation with you that’s right Illinois it goes to third nice to see
you again so soon yeah Paul Heyman’s hello Paul thank you
again for last night’s contributions to super chat and let’s see he’s Texas
Ben’s up Texas Tech all right yup Texas Tech and did Shelly say Jean I meant
June if I said sounded like June June Jean
no no no a genius June howdy be cross also from Texas
Virgil King William Ortiz is here and calm down scroll down okay and dr. Brown’s provided the
chasing Fenn’s treasure and she’ll write back because that message goes to her
email all Emmons is cleaning fish mm-hmm nice trip
Steve Smitherman hello oh that’s Paul Amin’s from drone fishing pole amethyst
oh is it a drone fishing there Paul we’re having a reminiscence about tonka
trucks hmm hi Steve gag Hagin from the Husker State John Kasich buenas tardes
you said that better 90 when I started this and journeymen had a Hopalong
Cassidy spoon be cross curious what the average age of the searchers are in the
room we can probably give you a hint to that because we can look at our YouTube
channel by the number of subscribers and our primary age group is 45 to 55 pineapples again that’s right yeah
pineapples again we noticed that Bryant meadowlarks and Shortcake does not yeah
James hundred dollars donations is that Paul again yeah Wow
okay thank you remember this is to be fun and I am do you think I am in
Forrest Fenn’s 7% club much money but I don’t think you’re in a 7% club but we
appreciate you and everybody gave you a plus yeah thank you so that took us up so I’m gonna go back
to Laurie’s question about the well it wasn’t a question metal arts and
Shortcake does not compute yeah I remember when I was younger we’d
go out camping my brother and I and we’d hunt well with our BB guns for small
birds to eat and honestly I they’re okay because you’re hungry but that’s the
only reason you want to eat a small bird and make it a regular part of your diet
they’re just no John Shannon Tobi ISM the true point man John Shannon I’m not
sure I think of that considering where that term comes from I’m not sure it’s a
compliment you’re gonna have to tell me if you think of that as a compliment
let’s see dr. Brown good point and you went too far good questions about Skippy
okay no you went too far there good point about a Christmas story Shelley
many other film references applied to Vinci Code and Forrest Gump interesting
did Skippy drink and Gamble instead of hanging around after dinner and wash
dishes you know there’s a there’s what is that the river runs through a kind of
relationship that strikes me I think Skippy was more adventurous you know if
you read yeah he really was very type-a adventurous you know trying out things
so it wouldn’t be I wouldn’t surprise me at all if Skippy was the one that was
drinking smoking and gambling when everybody was at home you know saying
their evening prayers or whatever they did but you know Skippy was an
interesting character so did Skippy ever marry and have children
Laurie James yes he did I don’t remember the name of his wife but Dale night so
tells the story of working with working on various oceanic treasure adventures
with Skippy’s son Clayton Creighton Creighton writing in Dale Knights will
also work together they work for a while so he did get
married but I don’t know that I recall fan talking about any of the you know
any of his wife or children other than mentioning them in a you know relatives
kind of way so but I do know that Creighton and Dale Creighton was his
oldest son and and took over in the diving business the treasure diving
business and he and Dale worked together that’s how they got to know one another
as a matter of fact it was Creighton that informed Dale about Fenn’s treasure
and that’s when Dale took an interest in it and Phil wants to know if Skippy sank
the plane and Hebgen know I think he managed to get out of there again make
it up he landed it was a seaplane so wouldn’t have right it had it had it had
those contents the pontoons and so he landed the plane which is difficult
enough to do on land much less water but they couldn’t get it because of the
altitude they couldn’t get it up in the air again and so they eventually had to
truck it out and we’re getting more answers about Skippy which we just
covered get even with my dad I believe his
approval in his own way yeah I think one of the struggles that Finn had is it
sounds like Marvin his father had a better more masculine relationship
I mean as opposed to not basket on but a father-son relationship with Skippy and
I think as a second child you would you would grow into I don’t mean I don’t
want to use the word resentment but you would work harder to have your father
appreciate you when it’s a boy usually the Alpha yes you were yeah
whereas your younger brothers are not the Alpha boy they’re not and so they
have some resentment towards you right and they expect you to be you know the
leader when dad’s not around and and that’s what made so it made it so
interesting after my father passed away and and for a while I was there and
remembered my mother telling me one time when after my father had passed away
where she said you’re the daddy of the house now and I was 11 yeah you know
what I’m going like the point that I was trying to make is that that would that
would likely mean fan would spend the later part of his life his adult life
trying to get the same level of approval that Skippy of his father’s approval
that Skippy had and I think towards the end he might have acquired some of that
but you have to work at it he had to work at it
Skippy didn’t Skippy was just Skippy and the oldest child and the relationship
between he and his father would have been natural and he had a nickname so
yeah how cool is that Jeremie Milstead says hello dr. Brown
asks how important is it to read too far to walk and once upon a while importance
well we are going to do them after we so I would I would say they’re important in
the context of understanding fan when I first got into this chase someone
asked me my opinion on how you find the treasure and I said to find the treasure
you have to understand the poem of the book and to understand the poem of the
book you have to understand the man and so what too far to walk and once upon a
while did for me is provide additional provide additional research material on
the man I don’t think in my opinion I don’t believe there is anything in too
far to walk or including the map honestly or once upon a while that will
get you closer to the treasure but it will get you closer to more completely
understanding Forrest Fenn and nobody nobody’s going to find that treasure
without having a good comprehensive understanding of the men yeah I think
say you know when he brought out too far to walk and you’ll see that the the
interviews that he did where he answers questions everybody was still talking
about his first book the thrill of the chase and I think in order to get more
publicity into some more books too far to walk he included that map and the
poem and answered questions about the treasure hunt specifically just to
garner interest in that new book not because it was going to help you find
the treasure because originally he only wrote the poem in the book in order to
help you find the treasure you could go back to our Moby Dick in this video
which I shot in November 2013 and and it’s funny because that book signing was
not to thrill of the chase book signing that was supposed to be a too far to
walk book signing and as when we talk about our notes there were about 45
people in that room and when fans said how many of you know about my treasure
about 10 or 12 people in the room raised their hands so the majority of people
were there to hear Finn and him talk about too far to walk not about the
thrill of the chase and within I don’t know five or six minutes of beginning
the conversation at the book store it moved migrated over to
the thrill of the chase and it just continued through for the next 45
minutes so and let’s see Betsy watches does anyone know offhand if is this the
only place in the book that has the word paddle other than the poem I don’t know
no it’s a good point but he does talk about being paddled you want me to find
out and that maybe that’s a can you keep talking while I find out I can find that
out um hello to Fibonacci he always went to his tree house rather than a cemetery
to think so that’s a good indicator yeah treehouses are great well of building
treehouses go ahead you’re gonna have to I’m trying to think of where I might
have gone oh here you go I was just go to my room you know cuz I
had privacy in my room my nobody would bother me if the door was closed they
you know that the most they would do is knock so I always had that ability to go
to my room and I think I think their room is kind of most girls security
place guys don’t stay i used to head up for the mountains mmm okay let’s see yep
who asked the question it was Betsy watches Betsy watches they’re the word
paddle is used twice in the book once in this chapter and once in the poem that’s
a good catch scaffold barrel in the Black Hills I am
gonna screw tell me when to stop Jimmy fast we all face death alone yes
we do oh look we got another super chat while we were looking the other
direction and that’s from dr. Brown dr. Brown thank you very much we appreciate it
does he have a question um he didn’t include one with it okay but if you do
let us know please let’s see you have energy you said to the top Jimmy fast
yeah we will all face death alone that is our assumption that you can only do
it by yourself oh man Toby Sam fen was going to die in a tree
if I said that no Bob would it might be hidden in something that resembles a
cemetery under something and it scares everyone away like the stuff I found the
first time I sent you those pictures what do you think well you know it is no
place for the meek right yeah yeah yeah let’s see along with death and education
we’ll just seem to be a very common theme and it’s early oh that’s just a
comment hmm Betsy watches interesting to me that forstman mentions just a block
north then guts to go in there could in be an indication of North in the poem
there’s just Betsy that’s one of those responses that anything is possible so dr. Brown am I the only one who
wonders that the Finns could have had a chicken barn hogs and chickens Billy
mentions them so and and I know they had goats and I know they had a horse so it
is very likely on that property there was enough of a space to build a small
farm like structure in the back where you could have maintained chickens hogs
he does mention they butchered their own hogs so I think it is very possible that
that may have been true you know I asks do you see any beat being any hints
in this chapter and there was when we’re reading it again this morning and there
was something that struck my fancy then that what has been say gets stuck in
your little brain oh let me just caught up in your brain yeah caught up in your
brain the one that caught got caught up in my brain that we didn’t discuss was oh it was the a kid really has time to
think when they’re in agreement that last sentence of the chapter it was it
was one of those it was one of those aberrations you know what how does that
why is that sentence there so I’m not sure that it necessarily it’s a hint
there was nothing obvious to me in terms of hints in this particular chapter and
we know that there are not going to be hints in every chapter he said there are
a couple of hints in the book that that are not placed you know to help the
searcher so we we have learned not to force looking for the hints in every
chapter we think there are some of the book but and we think we found some in
earlier chapters but we’re not sure necessarily that there was one here
hello BJ chamblee and Wayne Peterson and more cowbell oh boy let me see if I can
find more cowbell let me see dr. Brown Amy sit more cowbell Amy Smith
yes Shelly are you ok today you seem like you need to cry oh no I I actually
cried a lot yesterday because I was watching a sad TV show no is this warm
in here it is warm I’m literally I was thinking about getting a towel because
I’m sweating in here we turned the air conditioner off so that we could do this
and then we turn on all these lights in on and it really gets warm in here let’s
see educate how do you feel that slight landmarks like the cemetery being hints
to the location of chess you know it’s there there are probably dozens of those
kinds mountain right above Cimarron etc etc so I think I think the the
misspelling of the word dollars in when he was talking about his jars there’s a
dollar mountain in an area that we were looking up east of Yellowstone
so I you know I think you could make some of those things work but again I
think the idea is not to force it I think it has to come in a more natural
way a more you know again it that’s a good word for it it has to come in a
more organic way and not say honestly I ended up on the Cimarron because the
horseshoe mine you know you’re you’re looking for areas you’re looking at the
map and there’s a little X on the map with a little little pick and shovel
thing and it says horseshoe mine well you go back to that there’s a in one of
the chapters where he talks about the dimensions of making a horseshoe and and
so yeah I think there’s a lot of things in there you know we we’ve researched in
one of our videos we’ve researched the word green in the number of times he
used the word green and he uses the word green more often than Yellowstone well
Green River green this you know etc etc so I think they have to be more organic
than saying always talking about horseshoes that must mean the horseshoe
mine and Samara I don’t think it’s that I don’t think it’s that’s much of a
stretch yeah yeah that’s when we took her there animals when they went to
Yellowstone in the summer and they also talked about how his dad was a teacher
and a principal so why would they have farm animals but I think at the time it
was that it was that scarcity mindset that you know you have a garden and you
have your own chickens and you have your own cow and you and and it saves you the
the money of buying those food products and mom was home throughout the day so
she could be there for the animals when they went away I imagine they had a
neighbor or relative overs come take care of the animals and you know even my
husband and I talked about borrowing somebody’s chicken or chickens to put in
our garden to eat the bugs you know and if we were taking care of the chickens
we’d probably we we would be getting the eggs as well so it’s sort of a nice
trade-off that you know you take care of my animals and and you can use you know
their labor their eggs or or what-have-you for for the time that you
have them Fibonacci says agk what if this is Forrest Fenn’s way of running
away from home you know I think in an earlier time you
didn’t have to go as far as in later times to run away from home my idea of
running away from home was not down to block I’d go up into the mountains above
Santa Fe I ride my bike weekend when I was 9 or 10 are now fully developed
right overdeveloped in some cases so I think that was his way of getting away
from it but it wouldn’t surprise me to find out that you know he took off by
himself I mean he mentioned several times in the thrill of the chase about
being in Yellowstone and looking for elbow room and you know going fishing by
himself and and doing all these things so yeah although although I think the
distinction is he seemed to have permission it wasn’t running away from
home it was just doing something someplace else other than home rather
than running away yeah you know especially boys back then was they were
given a lot more freedom and you know they didn’t worry about them running off
and then getting killed or I would come back from out of the mountains after
having eaten you know three cans of beans and a in a small rabbit and my
mother would look at me and say where have you been you know like well I
didn’t even know what you were gone let’s see where’s Bobby
I think let’s see AG K when he said when he says get even with his father do you
think he means doing something his father said not to do I think that was
yeah if you look at his relationship with his father the way that he would
think to get it well even with his father
why was by disappointing him right because that was what he wanted more
than anything else what he wanted was his father’s approval and what he did
things right sometimes he would get his father’s approval but if he wanted to
pay his father back for something he would disappoint him and that could be
anything from you know being thrown out of Miss Ford’s class to
– you know selling the fish that he was supposed to bring home in in Yellowstone
so I think yeah that was his quote getting even unquote with his father that’s C AG ka hai Toby what are your
thoughts about the possibility that when the chest is found it will be empty
apart from the instructions to contact fan I do not pull it Doug I do not
believe that’s the case I think when you find that we believe and we should
always caveat our videos by saying these are our opinions we have no evidence or
proof of what I’m about to say but we have to believe it otherwise you have to
then ask yourself fire you’re searching so we believe that a he hid the treasure
we believe that B he hid the treasure somewhere in the mountains north of
Santa Fe and for some people that’s the entirety of the Rocky Mountains and we
believe that when you find the treasure he’s what’s going to happen to you is
what he says you’re going to open that box and you’re gonna be amazed at what
you see and so we have to believe that what you’re going to see is all the
things that he described he put in that box I don’t think there’s any reason to
do anything else because that’s the solution to that particular problem that
has the greatest longevity if he has contact papers or titles that are hidden
the that are opened in you know lock boxes and I just don’t think that has
longevity longevity is the treasure is there it is hidden and all the riches
that he claims he put in that treasure chest are there as well we got some
breaking news there was a 5.3 earthquake in LA Oh
anyway he’s got a kind of a bad week that’s according to our check check crew AG educated from dr. Brown not to
digress but agk have you ever addressed a turd Pat and Kay sir in that
that’s linear no I we have not we’ve thought about it but there wasn’t enough
there to cause us to research it further that’s Dagmar did it
I’m a terrible Fisher I don’t know anybody that’s know you know what you’re
doing off of it it’s it’s not hard to be a good Fisher depending on you now I’m
going through a phase where I’m teaching myself how to uh I’ve always fly-fished
and I’m teaching myself French sniffing which I’ve decided to learn just because
it lets me say French name thing a lot in conversation but that’s hard and I’m
terrible at it as of right now but every time I go back up I try it’s more and
eventually I’ll get better at it so getting the correct patterns down and
the correct weights down and the correct leader down fly-fishing is is a
wonderful way to distract yourself because it’s like broadcasting on
YouTube you have to learn a whole bunch of new
stuff and every time somebody comes up with another idea
you know french-led they’re bringing this european style of nim f—ing over
to America who knew there was polish name thing checked name thing British
temping French sniffing and cetera etc all of which have different styles but
it turns out that these European fishermen were beating the heck out of
our American brethren every time there was a fly fishing competition because
they were out fishing them using this style of style of fishing and so all the
Americans that we’re going to these competitions were bringing back the
style and tying new patterns nipping patterns and then choosing which of the
styles they liked better for their particular area and catching fish and
it’s a great way I mean it’s a it’s a wonderful way to trout fish the lengthy
Toby story agk from Virgil Kane is my name educate with a scissor-tailed
flycatcher be hard to shoot with a BB gun before you answer that I just want
to say dr. Brown said he forgot to attach a message to his super chat but
he just wanted to say keep up the good work thank you dr.
Brown we hope to we plan to and we really enjoy keeping up the good work
yeah now that educate asides the poem that is the scissortail place with
paddle yeah this is her tail yeah yes I think it would be hard to shoot with the
BB gun I don’t know there are small birds you’d have to hit him in the hand
otherwise you’re just going to damage the the meat but I again I don’t
remember any small bird meat worth eating other than in a stressful
emergency situation but that’s my opinion I suppose you could find a
Meadowlark tasty but given the choice between a chicken and a Meadowlark I’ll
take the chicken uh-huh let’s see Brian Eagle livestock were believable to me
because it made you okay yeah more cowbell Paul and Shirley I had to write
a check to the IRS ouch oh well yeah what you need to do is just keep making
those donations because well we’re not a non-profit a 3.1 agk do you think for
Sven may tie the special place to his father and his father’s approval
John okay caveat this is my opinion I believe that the place was special
enough to fend that he took that he may have taken his father to visit a special
place and thereby came up with a line about don’t go were a 79 or 80 year old
man couldn’t go now in 2010 1710 started changing that – I was 79 or 80 when I
hid the treasure well and or I hid the treasure in 2009 or 2010 prior to that
he used euphemisms for when and when when in
terms of time and how old he was when he hid the treasure and then all longer I’m
afraid it’s gonna fall off the table my phone is buzzing over there so I think I
think it was special too thin not necessarily his father but I believe
that he shared a special occasion so Jim little can we get Preston Douglas on the
show we would love that we asked him didn’t get a response sorry
yeah we’d love to dr. Brown agk Rick last night told about his substantial
expenses searching for the treasure I sent you an email on whether one can use
search costs as a tax deduction yeah you can if you’ve incorporated
yourself in a limited liability corporation because you can’t as an
individual you don’t have expenses you’d have to have the equivalent of the
business you could file a Schedule C but you would have to do them when the
expenses are incurred and to me expenses incurred as a treasure hunter prior to
actually finding any treasure is going to get you audited you may survive it
but I’m willing to bet it would get you audited we don’t we don’t track our
expenses we just have fun we have lots of fun cuz Paul keeps giving us money
now Paul wants to know Toby have you ever fished in front of my cabin the
first one on the left below Los Pinos I don’t I’ve been on the Las Pinas I don’t
remember the cabin and I’m always hesitant I’m very good with my BLM maps
and so I try to avoid the private private areas on the river I know
there’s a rule about you can’t own the water but I preferred not to fish around
the private areas because I’ve never I never know if on private property or not
and I would prefer not to incur the wrath of
any private property owner but I have spent time in Los Pinos so here’s what I
need you to do I’ll go up there this summer at least once so put a little
sign on your cabin that says hi Toby so Gary Sandburg is there any chance that
the treasure chest is in a town or city rather than out in the mountains no it
doesn’t make sense towns and cities are incorporated and
what isn’t owned by the town or city is in by an individual private individual
so there’s no way for you to own the treasure if you discovered it inside an
incorporated piece of property with the addition of private properties inside
the incorporated property and we’re at the bottom
mm-hm at the bottom yes that is the bottom yes hey guys we’ve made it
through let me make sure I haven’t missed any Rick said last night about a
substantial expenses okay dad did 10 to tell I think we made it to the bottom
mm-hmm Brian Eagle says zero like I think he that means a dad versus Toby I
know he’ll say you wouldn’t partner with anyone else but if someone could prove
they had the correct cell would you reconsider you know my position on the
matter is if you have the correct solve go get yourself that treasure yeah so
drop everything you’re doing right now including talking to me and go get that
treasure mm-hmm brain ego to give us five dollars for thank you know you
actually you’re one of our hard-working moderators that’s right follow this penis read
sorry I thought you were talking about the stream no I haven’t been to your
ranch Paul I’m sorry but I’m always open to invitations to ranches that are on
trout fishing waters so okay that looks like it let’s so we’re gonna go down the
Q&A for the day thank you all for your questions let me see if I can give you a
wrap-up okay now you can let me think about it okay so everybody take this opportunity
to give us a thumbs ups as they as they say young kids are saying it smash that
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and stuff so like the but like the bunnies like the video shared video with
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we’re going live or put up a new video we put up another video so the only
thing the only thing we have is tomorrow’s just the fax question oh yes
we do yeah or make that one I’m gonna come up with a question I was gonna say you didn’t get your question did you I
think of one I think okay let’s do this so let me go back to the chat for just
there so as we do a frequency a frequently asked question every week for
Shelley asks me a question that we get pretty often so before we sign off and
she and if you moderators out there saving
question sue asked a lot see the look on her face that means she didn’t come up
with a question this week so here’s your chance as a member of the chat to say
here’s the question I see that is frequently asked of you guys that needs
a consistent answer make this video for tomorrow okay yeah so put down your
questions a Shelly’s bacon bacon okay so put down that question mm-hmm put down
the frequently asked question for tomorrow and and if we select it
Shelly won’t mention your name okay I will okay I’ll do that
so thank you to our moderators for supporting us in the way that you do on
every one of these shows thank you to those folks that give us a
super chat donation we use that money productively to keep the show going and
to buy new equipment hopefully a camera that is not out of focus on myself
camera loves me but not you yeah apparently hmm and so we appreciate that
and then of course thanks to all of you oh can we tell them our idea just to see
what they think about it yeah why not okay so showing that there’s some
creature we’re gonna do it this is this is a heck of a way to end a show so
Shelly and I we have a tool we had an epiphany so if you guys watch our Thursday night
I’m sorry a once in that programming where we have a panel in order to do
that I use a tool called zoom us go there you can take a look at it download
download the desktop app so here’s what we’re thinking about doing I can put a
hundred people simultaneously into a zoom us room and we were thinking we
were thinking about doing something that Shelley called it’s called a GK’s
fantastic Fan Appreciation Day all right and and so what we’re thinking about
doing is in order to do this I need your email okay because I need to send you an
invitation via email to that particular chatroom okay
I’m not that chatroom that zoom us screen so what we were thinking about
doing is picking a day and a time say a couple of weeks off into the future and
have a bunch of you who might be interested in doing this
download zoom get your headsets and I’ll have to make a video and all the things
you’ve got to you’ve got to have the headset with a microphone you have to
have a webcam either independent or on your laptop and you have to have a
high-speed internet connection and you have to download the zoom app you have
to if you don’t teleconferencing you know how to do all this that’s all of
this so and then what we do on that day is we would open up the zoom room send
invitations to 98 other people and have a room in which there are a bunch of
other Fenn treasure searchers and everybody would get 60 seconds to a
introduce themselves be promote whatever online assets they have you know and
introduce yourself like my name is Toby Otis I’m from New Mexico and I’ve been
searching for the treasure for sixty Seconds
whatever you can get out in 60 seconds and just go down the line until we’ve
done all hundred people now would have to go really really quickly and I would
manage it by using the mute button just unmuting one person at a time as we went
down taking the time we’re thinking about doing this
doing it in zum-zum actually records the video of all of that and then after it’s
all done posting the video to our YouTube channel so in addition to giving
Shelly her question for frequently asked questions this week just put a comment
either here or in the comments below once this video is processed and tell us
what you think of that idea and maybe for their not you to actually want to
participate in it we just want to see how many Finn searchers fanatics I don’t
want to use phonetics fantastic fans okay fantastic fans we can’t use
phonetics that’s a bill Gorman brain oh don’t we don’t do that I just want to
see whether or not there’s some potential here and and the ghost works
well the first time we might do it like once a quarter or something like that
and eventually you’d have a pantheon if you will of Finn searchers on video all
saying hi my name is you know Richard McDonald I’m from Illinois I’ve gone out
a hundred and eight times and I think the treasures in New Mexico 60 seconds
man if you’d say something nice about forests you might even watch the video
when it’s done good idea yeah we could also say and I really think for Sven is
a good guy yeah and it has to be positive and I had a great time on my
treasure hunting and thank you for us something like that yeah
I think you’d like that anyway think about it make some comments about it
we’re thinking about doing it we think it’ll be a lot of fun okay let’s wrap it
all right what do we do now we say goodbye go beyond Dammam
we’ll be back Tuesday and Toby will come up with an align at Bonwit monday mm-hmm
near Monday so let’s look for the lineup we’ve got the full week plan for next
week including a panel and our guest is going to be exurban yeah and thanks for
being here today for all your great questions and comments we appreciate you
and for a Gypsys kiss the book club I’m Shelley Carney and I’m Toby Ennis thanks
for watching we will see you sometime early next week and here’s the outro
that everybody likes

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