Greg DeKoenigsberg & Robyn Bergeron, Red Hat | AnsibleFest 2019


>>Announcer: Live from Atlanta, Georgia, It’s theCUBE covering Ansible Fest 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat.>>Welcome back everyone. It’s theCUBE live coverage
in Atlanta, Georgia for Ansible Fest. This is Red Hat’s event where all the practitioners come together,
the community to talk about automation anywhere, I’m John Furrier with my co Stu Miniman,
our next two guests Robyn Bergeron, Principal
Community Architect for Ansible, now Red Hat
and Greg DeKoenigsberg, Senior Director Community
at Ansible as well, thanks for coming on, appreciate it.>>Greg And Robyn: Thank you.>>Hey so we we’re talking before camera that you guys had, this
is the two day event, we’re covering theCUBE
you guys have AnsibleFest but you had your community day yesterday, the day before the event,
people came in early, the core community, heard
great things about it, love to get an update, can
you share just what happened yesterday and then will get
into some of the community.>>Sure, so for all of our
AnsibleFests for a while now we’ve started them with a
community contributor conference and the goal of that
conference is to get together a lot of the people we
work with online, right, people we see as IRC
Nics or GitHub handles to get them together in the same room, have them interact with
core members of our team and that’s where we really
do make a lot of decisions about how we’re going to be going forward, get really direct feedback from
some of our key contributors about the decisions we’re making, the things we’re thinking about, with the goal of involving
our community deeply in a lot of decisions we
make, that’s the goal.>>John: So it’s like working session meets social get together.>>That’s right several working sessions and then drinks afterward
for those who want the drinks and just hang out time
that we don’t usually get.>>By the way drinks and dinner last night was really good, I caught the end of it, I missed the sessions but I caught the.>>Greg: Did you have the peaches, the peaches at all the table?>>It was good, it was good,
but this is the dynamic of community, this is one
of the things we know, so you’re not a seat open in
the house on the key note, standing room only,
active participant base from this organic Ansible
community now going mainstream, how are you guys handling it? How are you guys riding this wave? Because certainly, you
certainly do the community days which is great for feedback
that you get from the community but as you have the
commercialized open source and Ansible it’s a tough task.>>Well I’d like to think part of it is I guess maybe it’s not our first rodeo is that what we’d say I mean.>>Greg: Yeah.>>For Ansible, I worked at Elasticsearch doing community stuff, before
that I worked at Red Hat and I was the Fedora
Project Leader number five and you were Fedora Project
Leader, what number was that? Oh number one.>>Greg: It depends on
how you count it but.>>You were the one that got us to be able to call it having a Fedora Project Leader so I sort of count that as number one. So we’ve been dealing with this stuff for a really long time, it’s
different in Ansible in that unlike a lot of old
school things like Fedora, a lot of this stuff is
newer and part of the reason it’s really important for us
to get some of these folks here to talk to us in person
is that especially, and you saw my key note this morning where they talked about or
I talked about modularity, a lot of these folks
are really just focused on their one little bit
and they don’t always have as much time, people are
working in lots of open source projects now, right, and it’s
hard to pay deep attention to every single little thing all the time so this gives them a day
of in case you missed it here’s the deep dark dive into everything that we’re planning or thinking about and they really are,
people who are managing those smaller parts all around Ansible, really are some of our
best feedback loops, right, because they’re people that
probably wrote that module because they’re using it every single day and they’re hardcore Ansible users but they also understand
how to participate in community so we can
get those people actually talking with the rest
of us who a lot of us used to be SaaS admins, I
used to be a SaaS admin, lots of us, a lot of
our employees actually just got into wanting to work on Ansible because they loved using
it so much at their jobs and when you’re not actually
SaaS admining everyday you lose a little bit of.>>John: The frontline’s
where the truth is.>>Greg: That’s exactly right.>>The ground truth is right there.>>And putting all these
people together in a room makes sure that they all
also, when you have to look at someone in the eye and tell them news that they might not like,
you have a different level of empathy and you approach
it a little bit differently then you may on the internet so.>>Robyn so I looked in
your key notes this morning, you talked about Ansible first
commit was only back in 2012 so that simplicity, that modularity and the learnings from where open source had been in the past.>>Robyn: Yes.>>Can you share a little
bit, what could Ansible do being a relatively young project that it might not have been able to do if it had a couple of decades of history?>>Maybe Greg should tell the
story about the funk project.>>There was a project at Red
Hat that we started in 2007 in a coffee shop in Chapel
Hill, North Carolina. There was myself and Michael
DeHaan and Seth Vidal and Adrian Likins who still
works with us at Ansible and we put together an idea
with all the same underpinnings, right, a highly modular automation tool. We debated at the time on whether it should be based on SSL or SSH. For funk we chose SSL and after watching that grow to a certain point and then stagnate and it
being inside of Red Hat where there were a lot of
other business pressures, things like that, we learned
a lot from that experience and we were able to take that experience and then in 2012 there was,
the open source community was a little different, open
source was more acceptable, GitHub was becoming a common platform for open source project
hosting and so a lot of things came together in a short period of time. All that experience, all of those.>>And also market conditions
had changed, right.>>And the market conditions, yep.>>Like in 2007, cloud
was sort of a weird thing that not really everyone was doing. 2012 rolls around.>>Greg: Yeah.>>Everyone has these
cloud images and they need to figure out how to get something in it and it turns out that Ansible’s a really great way to actually do that.>>Greg: Yes.>>And even if we had picked SSH back in the beginning, I don’t know.>>Might not have had the same luck.>>Sometimes projects
grow to a certain point and I can point to lots of
projects that were just, it’s a shame that they
were so ahead of their time and because of that money ran
out or people moved on, yeah.>>Timings everything,
but the key I think now what I’ve always admired
about the simplicity is automation requires that they
extract away the complexities.>>Robyn: Yep.>>And so I think you bring up cloud, that brings up more
complexity, more use cases for some of the underlying pinnings.>>Greg And Robyn: Yeah.>>Part of the plumbing and
this is always going to, this is a moving train
that’s never going to stop.>>Robyn: Yeah (laughs).>>What was the feedback from
the community this year round as you guys get into some of
these analytical capabilities. So the new features have
a platform flared to it, it’s a platform, you guys announced Ansible automation platform.>>Yeah.>>That implies it enables some value.>>I think in a way we’ve
always been a platform, right, because a platform is
a set of smalls rules and then modules that attach to it, it’s about how that grows, right, and traditionally we’ve had
a batteries included model where every module and plugin
was built to go into Ansible. Boy that got really big, right, and so.>>Yeah we’re like, we’re
at I don’t even know how many thousands of modules.>>3000, I’ll say 2000
and then it’ll 3000, I say 3000 it’ll be something
else so it’s a lot of content.>>And it’s, in the beginning
it was, I can’t imagine this ever being more than
200, 250 batteries included and at some point it’s like
yeah taking care of this and making sure it all
works together all the time gets more and more difficult so.>>You guys have done a
great job with the community and one of the things that
you mentioned with cloud is as more use cases come
scale becomes a big question and there’s real business
benefits now so open source has become a part of the business, people talking about business
models in open source, you guys know that,
you’ve been part of that 28 years of history with Linux but now you’re seeing DevOps,
which is, go back to 2007, 8, 9, 10 time frame, only the purest were talking DevOps at that time, infrastructure as code
was being kicked around. We’ve certainly been covering
theCUBE since 2010 on that. But now in mainstream enterprise it seems like the commercialization
and operationalizing of DevOps is here, you
guys have a proof point in your own community of
people taking about culture, about relationships, we had
one guest on talking about they’re now friends with the
other guys (laughs) and gals so you see the collaborations
now becoming a big part of it because of the playbooks,
because of these instances so talk about that dynamic
of operationalizing the DevOps movement for enterprise.>>All right so I remember an
example at one of the first AnsibleFests I ever went
to, there were a few before I came on board but it was, I think it was the first one I came to when I was about to make the
jump from my previous company and I was just there as a
visitor and a friend of the team and there was an admin who talked to me and said for the first time I
have this thing, this playbook that I can write and that
I can hand to my manager and say this is what
we’re going to do, right, and so there was this artifact
that allowed for a bridging between different parts
of the organization, it was the simplicity of that playbook that was human readable, that
he could show to his boss or to someone else in the
org that they could agree on and suddenly there was
this sort of a document that was a mechanism for collaboration that everyone could
understand and buy into that hadn’t really existed
before Ansible existed and for me that was one of
the many flip of the light moments where I was like oh wow, maybe we have something really big here.>>There were plenty of other
infrastructures, code things that you could hand to someone but for a lot of people it’s like I don’t speak that language, right, and that’s why we like to say
like Ansible’s sort of this universal automation language, right, like everybody can read
it, you don’t have to be a rocket scientist, it’s great
for your exact example right. I’m showing this to my manager and saying this is the order of operations and you don’t have to
be a genius to read it because it’s really, really readable.>>John: It’s connecting
systems which connects people.>>That’s right.>>What’s fascinating to me is
there was this whole wave of enterprise collaboration
tools that the enterprise would try to push down and
force people to collaborate but here is a technology
tool that from the ground up is getting people to do that collaboration and they want to do it and it’s helping break down some of those walls.>>Well and it’s interesting
so you mention that and I’m sure something
like Slack is a thing that falls into that category
and they’ve built a business around making sure that
the 20 billion people inside a company all
sign up until somebody in the IT department’s
like what do you mean these random people are
just, everyone’s using it, no one’s saving it and this is
secure and they all freak out and well I mean this is sort of everybody tells their friend about Ansible and they go oh right tool
that’s going to save the world number 22 oh wait actually
yeah no this is it, this actually is pretty cool, yeah, yeah get started in 15 minutes.>>Well sometimes the better mouse trap will always drive people to that solution, you guys have proven that organic. What’s interesting to me
is not only does it win on capabilities, it
actually grew organically in this connected tissue
between different groups.>>Greg: Right.>>Kind of breaks down
that whole silo mentality and that’s really where IT’s been stuck.>>Greg: Yes.>>And as software becomes more prominent and data becomes more prominent it’s going to just shift more power in the hands of the developer.>>Robyn: Yeah.>>And to the SaaS admins
who are now being redeployed into being systems architects
or whatever they are. I mean this transitional
human roles with automation.>>Robyn: Digital
transformation architect.>>Oh my god, yeah (laughs).>>Robyn: That’s got to be a title now.>>That’s the real title, yeah,
I don’t have it but (laughs).>>Just double my pay I’ll take it. (Robyn laughs)>>So collections is one of
the key things talked about when we talk about the
Ansible automation platform. Been hearing a lot of
discussion about how the partner ecosystem’s really stepping
up even more than before, 4600 plus contributors
out there in the community but the partner’s stepping up.>>Greg: Yeah.>>Where do you see this going? Where will collections really catalyze the next growth for your community?>>It’s got to be the future for us, there were a few key
problems that we recognized that collections was ultimately
the solution that we chose. One key problem is that with
the batteries included model that put a lot of pressure on vendors to conform to whatever our processes were. They had to get their
batteries into our thing to be a part of the ecosystem and there was huge demand to
be a part of our ecosystem so partners would just
sort of swallow hard and do what they needed to do
but it really wasn’t optimized to help partners, right, so
they might have different development processes, they might have different release cycles, they might have different testing on the back end that would be more
difficult to hook together. Collections breaks a lot of that out and gives our partners a lot of freedom to innovate in their own time.>>Robyn: Release on
their own cycles, right.>>Release on their own cycle.>>We just released our
new version of software but you can’t actually get
the new Ansible modules that are updated for it
until Ansible releases is not always the thing that.>>Right.>>Makes their product immediately useful, if you’re a vendor, you
release something new, you want people to start
using it right away not wait until Ansible comes around so.>>And that new artifact also
creates more network effects with Galaxy and automation hub and the new deployment options that we’re going to have
available for that stuff. So it’s, I think it’s
just leveling up, right, it’s taking the same approach
that’s gotten us this far and just taking it out to another level.>>Yeah, but I certainly
wouldn’t consider it to be like that partners are separate part of our, they’re still
definitely part of the community it’s just they have
slightly different problems and there were folks from all
sorts of different companies who are our partners in the
contributor summit yesterday.>>And they were excited.>>Who were actually participating and folks swapping stories
and listening to each other and again being part
of that feedback loop.>>Maybe just a little bit broader, the other communities out there, think of the Cloud Native
Computing Foundation, the Open Infrastructure Foundation, you’re wearing your Zuul pin and talk about how
Ansible plays across these other communities which are very much a mixture of the vendors
and the end users.>>Well I mean Ansible certainly had, sorry are asking about how Ansible is relating to those other communities?>>Stu: Yes.>>Okay, yeah, ’cause I’m all about that, I mean we certainly had a long standing sort of fan base over in Open-Sec slash Open Infrastructure Foundation land. Most of the floyment tools for all of, all the different ways, so
many ways to deploy open stack. A lot of them wound up settling on Ansible towards the end of time, that
community sort of matured and there’s a lot of
periods of experimentation and that’s one of those
things is somethings live somethings didn’t but the core parts of what you actually need to make a cloud are basically still there. And then we also have a ton
of modules actually in Ansible that help people to operationalize
all their open stack cloud stuff just like
we have modules for AWS and Google Cloud and
Azure and whoever else I’m leaving out this week. As far as the CNCF stuff
goes, I mean again we’ve seen a lot of how to get this
thing up and running, turns out Kubernetes is
not particularly easy to get up and running,
it’s even more complicated than a cloud sometimes
’cause it also assumes that you’ve got a cloud
of some sort already and I like working on our thing. I can actually use it, it’s pretty cool. Kubespray and then a lot
of the other projects also have things that
are related to Ansible and now there’s the
Ansible operator stuff, I don’t know if you want
to touch on that but.>>Yeah, we’re working on, we
know one of the big questions is how do Ansible and
OpenShift slash Kubernetes work together, frequently
in sort of Kubernetes land, OpenShift land you want
to keep as much as you can on the cluster, lots of
operations on the cluster. Sometimes you got to talk to
things outside of the cluster, right, you got to set
up some networking stuff or you got to talk to an S3 bucket, there’s also something,
some storage thing, as much as you try to get
things into container land there’s always legacy stuff,
there’s always new stuff maybe edge stuff that might
not all be part of your cluster and so one of the things we’re working on is making it easier to use Ansible as part of your operator structure to go and manage some of those things using the operator framework
that’s already built in to Kubernetes and OpenShift.>>John: Again more complexity out there.>>Well and the thing is we’re great glue, Ansible is such great
glue and it’s accessible to so many people and as we
move away from monolithic code bases to micro services
and vastly spread out code bases, it’s not like
the complexity goes away, the complexity simply
moves to the relationship between the components and
Ansible is excellent glue for helping to manage those relationships between components.>>John: Who doesn’t like a glue layer?>>If it’s good and easier
to understand, even better.>>The glue layers key,
guys thanks for coming on.>>Yeah, thanks for having us. Robyn, Greg, sharing your insights.>>Thank you so much.>>Take a quick minute
to give a quick plug for the community, what’s
up, stats, updates, quick projects, give a quick plug for what’s going on in
the community real quick.>>You go first.>>We’re big, we’re huge, six, seven.>>Robyn: It was number six,
number seven was Kubernetes.>>Right, number six out
of 96 million projects on GitHub so lots of
contributors, lots of energy.>>Anytime I try to cite a stat I find that I actually have to go and look it up and I was about to cite again the wrong.>>So active high numbers
of people activity.>>Lots of activity.>>I mean you’re running the plumbings, obviously it’s cloud and on premise. Other updates, projects
or the contributor day, what’s next, what’s on the schedule?>>We’re looking to put together our next contributor summit we’re hoping in Europe sometime in the spring so we’ve
got to get that on the plate. I don’t know if we’ve announced
the next AnsibleFest yet.>>Oh no that happens
tomorrow so don’t ruin that.>>I won’t ruin that for everybody.>>Congratulations on a great community, you guys done great work,
obviously open source, open business, open everything these days, can’t bet against open.>>It’s hard to bet against open.>>I wouldn’t bet against open.>>We’re here, CUBE, we’re
open, we’re sharing all the data here in Atlanta, with the
interviews, I’m John Furrier, Stu Miniman, stay with us for
more after this short break. (electronic music)

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