"I Could Be Wrong" // A Discussion on Reconciliation



well Matthew just finished up a three-week teaching series on reconciliation can you talk us through a little bit kind of what motivated you want to teach this series and what led to you eventually to to teaching it yeah so this past year one of the things that we said it beginning of the year for like the vision is that we were gonna focus on a handful of things so one of them was healthy relationships and that's been a big thing for us as a church for a long time you know the joke behind the scenes is how often can we use the word connect so we have connect grooves you know connection central and different things but it really is that we want to help people have healthy relationships in general but then specifically bill about reconciliation is our experiences it's it's obviously needed because there's always going to be tension in relationships but our experiences many people don't have any idea how to reconcile so we would have questions we have people come in that would be absolutely heartbroken that a relationship had tension this person is not talking to me anymore I don't know how to fix it and so we would kind of navigate them through that and stuff that we would say and I don't mean that sound kind of sending but stuff that we would say that was like common sense or things that we had learned to other people was like brand-new information so it just and our mindset was well if that's true in these cases it's probably true across the board so we wanted to give people tools to help them reconcile and so yeah we had a three week slot that would fit perfect and so we did the series for them what feedback have you been getting or what's kind of the the stories that you're getting back people are processing out this information yes really positive and then also really heartbreaking the positive is people are putting it into practice and it's working so we've had multiple people say I've either completely reconciled a relationship that was broken or we began the process and that's what I've in my mind that's what I often think is it's very rare that you're gonna say like I reconciled like it's done it's more gonna be like we started a conversation and when you have the right heart and now you have that same goal it allows them to get that get it going in the right direction the heartbreaking part is it brings to the surface the broken relationships and it's so some of the feedback has been and I understand this it's I know I need to reconcile this relationship I don't want to and that was actually the reason the third message was even there was I realized there would be many relationships that you don't in your heart want to reconcile it's too painful too many years of frustration or you've had such a gap where you haven't had a relationship you've gotten used to it kind of grown numb to a gun over it so that's heartbreaking but in the same sense they're feeling the the leading of the Holy Spirit and the conviction of the Holy Spirit to reconcile and so they're just now going okay we got to get in this process and so I think a lot of our questions kind of came from that heart people going all right like I know what I need to do but man I don't want to do it so how do I go through this process you reference that last message and I think that's been the biggest impact for people is understanding I had talked about how God has reconciled to us and how he continues to pursue that in all of our lives and so can you just resize for us why that matters and how that really should impact how we reconcile in our lives yeah so before this series I was on another series and I had this visual where I had like two points on the stage it was like two poles and I said you know if you take God out of our lives what you have is you have birth any of death and everything you can fit in between there you should be selfish you should focus on yourself because if that's all you have that's we need to focus on but once you have God into the equation and you enter into a relationship and now we have eternal life are we lose that death point and so now we go for eternity our perspective has to change and so when we talk about reconciliation if you remove God from it I I don't know there's a it doesn't make logical sense to reconcile every relationship because it doesn't add to your happiness and if this is if your life is just birth and death and you should only do what makes you happy but when you start to understand the perspective of God reconciling us it should radically impact us at multiple levels first the heart it is what radically changes our heart because you realize the the undeserved love and grace that we have received should cause us to have that same response to others and that's what I said is I think the first point that kind of set the foundation of the message was everything God has done for us comes with an expectation to do for others and but that should become a natural byproduct I mean you received the love it changes your hearts and so you can love others but then it also becomes the standard and that that's how God treated us and so we do have that standard that we're God's the innocent party we're the guilty party and so in our lives are gonna be times we're the innocent party others are guilty but we have to respond to them the same way God has to us and then a I think lastly it's it really is that perspective changer where we have to constantly remind ourselves and this is so difficult but we have to remind ourselves we are living with an eternal perspective and so I can make sacrifices now I can do things uncomfortable now and that with ongoing rewards because I'm going to have eternal life where I'm not gonna have to deal with these things you know and I'll probably come back to that later on the podcast talk a bit more about it but yeah so it's just that sets the foundation and I could have done that message the first in the series but I wanted to start with some practical things to kind of get people's minds going in the right direction even give them some hope some excitement and then come in with that one because I think if you start sometimes really heavy it almost it's like overwhelming to people and so I wanted to end with the final thought so that that would go with them and reconciliation can be such a process and you talked about that earlier but not every process goes as expected or it's not as fluid or as smooth as we would like it to be so what if there are situations where you're trying or attempting to reconcile with somebody and they're not wanting to kind of give in to that are willing to do that in their in same response yeah I think that's the oftentimes the most difficult and and even heartbreaking times when you want to reconcile and someone else doesn't so we have to always recognize that in in every single process of reconciliation there's at least two people sometimes more in those two people no matter their spiritual perspective are still two people broken by sin and and so we're gonna have selfishness we're gonna have egos as involved in it so there's never going to be an ideal where it's perfectly done so what we have to understand is what we are responsible for is our own heart and our own action and so we have to always be as a very personal thing between us and God first and then someone else and so when someone else doesn't want to reconcile we still have to honor what God has called us to do believing that God supernaturally blesses obedience and he really does there are many people that will what they'll try the ways of God for a little bit that person doesn't respond well and so then they go back to their own like fleshly behavior and then they're like why tried God's Way but you don't know like the process that God can use because it could be you could be planting seeds and then later on God's gonna water that and and sometimes I see people that they're the guilty party and then they go to reconcile and then they're shocked that the other person doesn't immediately trust them right well you're like that that could take time so you might plant a seed in their heart to say like I'm changed they might actually want to believe you but they just they're nervous and so they need to see some time they need to see months years where you are still being kind still being that way to realize you've changed so again for us when the other party doesn't want to reconcile they don't want to go through that process we still are responsible for our behavior and so we have to always just be checking our own hearts and seeking God in that situation and asking God to supernaturally blast and supernaturally work in that situation to soften hearts so in the process of reconciliation you go to reconcile and that person doesn't want to as we discussed but then that there's continued hurt with that so a lot of times in relational settings there is this backlash of just the experience of feeling hurt in our lives so that person doesn't change and that hurt just continues to happen how do we process that out you know because we know that we're pursuing God in it we're trying to do OBD we're trying to be obedient in it but that hurt just continues to happen how do we communicate that to the other person or continue to heal in that process I I don't know how the communication with the other person goes with that you might just have to create some separation for a time but it becomes an opportunity to allow God to meet you in that place of hurts and to learn to trust him that's the thing about reconciliation is it's so vulnerable especially it when you're the person reaching out its vulnerable and so you're you're opening your heart once again and I think where I'm gonna probably reference it's like numerous times but that's why you go back to what God has done for us is it was vulnerable it is vulnerable Jesus left his place in heaven to come to earth to redeem rebellious people sinful people hurtful people even at the end when Jesus was fully God but fully man at the very end his disciples left him and he still had to reconcile that in any one of the most beautiful accounts in Scripture Peter who denied Jesus three times it says in Scripture that after Jesus was resurrected he appeared to Peter first what was that that's a process of reconciliation but it's still vulnerable he's going to his what his best friend arguably him or John and then he's talking him about what you know what went on but the relationship was restored and I think in our lives it's that same heart that we go you know it's vulnerable but I'm gonna allow God to work through this situation to also not just work in the situation but to work in my heart so that I can continue to learn to trust in Jesus and so I do need to keep praying about that consistently pray about that I need to fill my heart with things that are gonna lift it up so if that person is being hurtful I don't want to replay the arguments over and over in my mind that's a big one for me that I have to be really sensitive toward because and that really stirs me up I start having imaginary arguments and in really demonizing that other person i belittled their argument because like when you have imaginary arguments you're you always win so you're you're belittling their arguments you're painting them with a negative picture that negative brush you're lifting yourself up and pride and it just becomes this really unhealthy spiral situation so I have to check my heart with that often and and pray and immediately stop myself when I'm starting to do imaginary arguments and then what what Jesus tells us to do is to pray for those who heard us pray for our enemies and I really do think that's a process where you start praying for them praying God's blessing on them that God will move in their lives and is really hard to hate someone that you're praying for I think it's impossible if you continue to do it but yeah there's no there's no shortcut it's just a process to allow God to meet us in that place of hurt so say you have closed relationships that you're you you almost required to interact with so their close family that type of thing and and you know that you're gonna have these interactions with them but there is some hurt there or you know that they're present sometimes in your life creates a little bit of damage or whatever say it's a marital relationship and there is some damage that with that person being around is there ever a time in those moments that you create space that you say I'm gonna put some boundaries on this and I because I know that their presence can be a little bit damaging so how would you handle those types of scenarios you know yeah so the you know in that situation I think the Bible is somewhat silent on the specifics of that so some of this is gonna be just my opinion what the Bible is clear on is a heart and like the heart that we're supposed to have and then the action I think as oftentimes led by the Holy Spirit so what I would say to the answer to that is we need to always have the right heart a heart that there's a heart of love of respect toward people in a heart that's sensitive to the Holy Spirit leading us and then even specifically asking the Holy Spirit what do you want me to do in this situation so like I'll give like so Jesus specifically he had we know in Scripture he had like like the thousands that followed him there's time to mention like 150 there's times that 70 are following them he had the twelve and then he had the three so even in the context of Jesus he had different levels of relationships with different people he didn't give everyone the same access to him and and he would have to think he would I mean obviously he's led by the spirit he almost perfectly led by the spirit person in the moment where he was here on earth and so he recognized that every relationship is gonna have a different dynamic so like even in my own life there's not every relationship has the same access to me so what I would also say though is if it's a person you have to be around then you have to sometimes change your mindset I'll say here's attention is often times where the hurt is it's a relationship that you wish you could get more out of so the fact that that family member is not giving you the love that you wish you could get they're not giving you the support that they're supposed to give you that co-workers doing something that you would hope that they would do differently in that you're looking at them saying they should be acting this way and I think what has to happen is your respective has to change so that you now view them as a ministry opportunity so they're not gonna give to me what I what I hope they would but I'm gonna continue to give to them when I'm called to as a follower of Christ sure absolutely so what if both parties confess and there's repenting process in in that but one party like wants to go back to how that relationship originally was and I know we talked about the process but sometimes it is a long process to even get back to the normalcy of what we we want that relationship to be what I mean yeah so we'll challenge the one party wants to get back and one party doesn't you know yeah that's a tough situation the so the ideal is in true complete reconciliation is you can go back not just to where you once were but to a healthier place absolutely that's the ideal the problem though is that's not just not always realistic because I mean so many reasons if you're talking divorce you know there are times in divorce that I do love the powerful stories where couples have been divorced and they remarried with each other and they reconcile that's wonderful but there are times that that people move on and they're remarried but they still need to reconcile that past hurt in relationship but you can't go back to one where you once were there are times that with just the the hurt that people won't trust anymore they won't have a desire to be friends with you anymore and and so on this side of heaven we're not gonna see complete reconciliation but and that's sad but I would go back to that same thing is you have to keep praying for it if it's a relationship that you think can add value that you do want to be reconciled keep praying for the relationship keep doing what God has called you to do in that because you want to show them that you are different that you have changed and yeah but it again it's just a process when you have unforgiveness or when you're working through even how to forgive one of the questions was what do you mean we keep with there are times when we don't forgive what does that mean in and how do we know that that's that unique scenario yeah so I said that in a sermon probably a year or two ago or I referenced like he didn't have to forgive and why mention any like in the connector video and I just remember people came to me like like have you read the scriptures and so I knew that one was always gonna create some tension so even when I said it on Sunday maybe to a fault I kind of it was like one of my points it probably should have been the entire message because it does sound so shocking so not to not to sound like I'm patting myself on the back but I really do study things before I teach it and one of the things when we talk about forgiveness is there's a lot of things taught about it that's a it's a misunderstanding of forgiveness and so it's incorrectly taught and and I would say this idea that we have to forgive everyone no matter what is not biblical and actually it's damaging but what happens is when when I say it it's one of the things I'm saying something and they're hearing something different so what I'm saying is as I look at Scripture we don't have to forgive because we are commanded to forgive exactly how Jesus says Jesus sort of has forgiven us God has forgiven us so that confusion says that Colossians says that it's just mentioned numerous times even in the Lord's Prayer forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors but the standard is how God forgives us and the question is does God forgive everyone regardless of repentance no so what happens is when I say that and I'll explain this a little bit more in a minute but when I say you don't have to forgive what people often hear is I can then break that relationship I can then be angry at that person I can then hate that person I don't have to forgive that's not what I'm saying what we are all commanded to do and what God has modeled is we are always commanded to love so love is the universal thing that's not dependent upon behavior so it is the unconditional response forgiveness is not unconditionally taught in Scripture just the opposite is it's taught that we're supposed to confront people why would Jesus tell us to confront someone and then if they repent to forgive them why confront someone if you have to forgive them no matter what it's because forgiveness is a very healthy process the process of confrontation of confession of repentance is this beautiful thing that helps relationships get healthier so the unconditional response is I still have to love you I have to pray for you I have to treat you with respect I have to desire for reconciliation have to desire for forgiveness I have to be even prepared in my heart ready to forgive you if you confess if you repent but I don't have to forgive you because forgiveness is just saying there's this issue that I need to address with you I'm not gonna be mean to you I'm not gonna be mad I'm not gonna allow it to become a cancer in my heart I'm gonna still love you but at some point if we want to have true reconciliation I want to address this so like in marriage it's very healthy to confront sins and or behaviors that are destructive and to just simply constantly forgive we're human so if we just constantly release what eventually starts it actually happening is we're just sticking it under the rug over and over and eventually it's like the series we did a bag of stuff eventually stuffs going to come out so again we don't have to forgive unless I would say if you're holding on to unforgiveness in that it's causing you to not be able to love now you're growing angry then you need to have this moment with God where you're making a decision of the will I'm gonna release this because it is becoming a cancer to me but scripture does not teach unconditional forgiveness it doesn't teach it God doesn't do it to us and he says we're supposed to forgive the way that he does but it does teach unconditional love yeah unforgiveness can be such an immature to wanting to pursue reconciliation what are some signs that maybe we are experiencing that in our lives what are some signs and indicators that maybe I have some unforgiveness in this place in my heart yeah I think each person probably a bit different but it's when we're wishing evil upon a person when we're happy when we find out something went bad in a person where we're disappointed when something goes good with a person so especially nowadays with social media someone posts you know they're on vacation and you're like the you know then they post all right rained and you're like yeah yeah like those are indications of the heart I think an inability to pray for that person is like were you praying blessing on them it sounds like a joke but I remember years ago hearing someone say lucky I'll pray for them you know pray God's judgment on them and that was actually the prayers they were praying God like bring this person's life to a crashing halt so that they might know and I thought you know like there might be some truth to that I think there's some Psalms that probably pray that way but I don't think that's the heart of what Jesus was saying it's more of God loved them the same way you love me it's offering their hearts the same way so I think that tells us for us that there's unforgiveness is if we have an imaginary arguments were wishing ill unable to celebrate in their joys of life and also if we're avoiding them if we gossip about them if those types of things I mean I think we're all probably sensitive enough and smart enough to know unhealthy things are a sign that there's that unforgiveness in the heart yeah we often hear that we often attach forgive and forget together when we're thinking about forgiveness but I think for most of us it's hard to forget it's hard to simply just let go because we'll have you know months and years of go by then all of a sudden that thought comes back up again or we're wrestling with the forgetting portion of it is there something is it true that we have to forgive and forget and you know it's like what happens if we do have this lots of good so the simple answer is the answer is no no we don't have an ability to forget in that concept we're not a computer so it's not like you know literally on your computer you can take a file put it in the trashcan or delete it it's gone it's not to be ever brought back on the computer we don't have that ability so forget being able to forget it would have to be a supernatural thing which just simply doesn't happen and honestly that phrase does not anywhere in scripture there is a passage I believe it's in Hebrews I could be wrong they think it's in Hebrews where it says that God will remember our sins no more but the truth of it is God is all-knowing he didn't forget it in that sense what it's poetic language to say that God's not going to hold our sins against us that we've confessed and the reason is is that Jesus paid for our sins so if if God were to hold our sins against us he would be unjust because the sins have been punished in our lives we can't forget so that's not forgiveness the power forgiveness is not in forgetting it's in making that that decision of the will that I'm going to release this and so in our lives when it comes back we have to go through that process again to make a conscious decision to release it and it is it has a weird dynamic of our minds and hearts where you cannot think about a situation or even think well of a person for a long time and then for no explanation it creeps back in your heart and you're there again where you're mad and it can be something as simple as a season of the year where just reminds you of that hurt that you went through it can be just see that person like out of the blue and it all my goodness I still have those emotions so for us it's just that we have to make that decision I'm just gonna always be purposed that when it comes back up I'm gonna release it once again I'm going to make a decision even I would say to say it to yourself I forgive that person and then spend time praying god help me forgive that person for me I know it's oftentimes when reminiscing about the past where people were bringing up situations and like you start telling stories and sometimes you're not even telling stories not in a gossip sense like you're just oh yeah that was funny this happened and then also reminds you of that season of life and then there was that person and you're like oh yeah like I think we even had it done that you guys read our house and we're just kind of reminiscing about the past of the church and different things and he do start to remember some relationships that have been hurtful and you're like again we weren't like sitting there blasting someone gossiping but it was like I think there are moments where like we all kind of stare from the distance and I start thinking about that like yeah like that relationship was hurtful you know that was a bummer and then you have to make that decision I'm I forgive that person I released that situation right so if you have forgiven somebody you've reconciled in that relationship it's it's on its way back to health again but then you see once again that person starting to pursue things that may be created that hurt in the past what is your responsibility in that relationship to speak into that and if you do speak into that is that you know unforgiveness there is that bringing up some that's a grating of stress yeah so there is another misconception is in the process of forgiveness I can never acknowledge that thing the in a healthy so an unhealthy way what would happen and this happens in all of our relationships is you do bring it back to use against that person in an argument to prove a point and they're like I thought you forgave me of that and then you're throwing it back in their face that's unhealthy but it's okay to use that in the context of a really healthy conversation in a loving conversation with the person to say even how you word it it's okay to go to them and confront the situation say like again here here's a humble heart like I want to have a healthy relationship with you and that behavior that's going on now reminds me of that time in the past where we had that that tension in that problem and I don't want to go back there I want to continue to have a healthy relationship so I'm just saying like it makes me nervous as I see that repetitive behavior so when you can have a conversation like that if the other person is remotely healthy they can hear that and and accept that so it's okay to just say hey that makes me nervous I'm seeing the same repetitive behavior that we've addressed before because again that's the whole heart of confrontation that's why Jesus in Luke says if your brother sins against you confront them if he repents forgive them if he sins against you seven times in one day and seven times you go in confront him in seven times he repents seven times forgive them but it is always that element of confrontation because that's a healthy part of forgiveness to say I'm gonna confront that person confesses and repents and then I forgive that's a good rhythm but it always is with the right heart you have to go them or the humble heart in a soft way of communicating if you go they're aggressive if you throw it in their face it's just not gonna work well I know you're speaking not from this I've just read a bunch of books on this and I'm just kind of you know gained a bunch of knowledge on and so I'm just gonna teach you this you personally have walked through some different difficult seasons of reconciliation so you don't have to be specific but just talk about what you've learned through those seasons and how that's impacted even your teaching on this topic yes this is one area so I really work hard as a pastor to be transparent and also to share my failures I never have valued the imagery of trying to act like I've arrived so I will oftentimes talk of my failures and then sometimes I'll talk of my successes this is an area that I'm most thankful for that God has radically changed in my heart I mean radically changed in my heart I cannot give God more credit for what he's done in my heart so of value because I used to be a person who did not reconcile I would compartmentalize every relationship to an extreme like even talking about it it almost sounds robotic if a person hurt me I could cut off a relationship and not have an emotional response to it and it would just be like it would be over and that's it I'm talking like family relationships close friends it was just I was cold and it was a prayer that I prayed to God of recognizing that saying I I want you to soften my heart and he did some some miracles one of them was my son Cole was born on my birthday at that same season that I was my first child born on my birthday in that season where I was seeking God to soften my heart and God used that and so from that process I've really worked hard to have a softer heart and allowed God to work on that and then work through the process of reconciliation to where now I highly value reconciliation and have walked through that in numerous relationships in my life so on a personal note the relationship that's most common is my marriage I think marriage is the most intense process of reconciliation because it's it should be if it's healthy marriage ongoing like almost like a non-stop process of reconciliation because you're consistently letting each other down you're consistently not meeting their hopes and their expectations and so there's that process that you have to address issues and be healthy with that and learning the rhythm so like Mary and me work really hard to have a healthy marriage we always have but we are getting better at reconciliation so for us the the process that we would go through is we would have this rhythm that I would say would have unhealthy elements and then healthy elements so we would get frustrated with each other we would we would amp up emotionally to a place where we're frustrated we would argue with each other about who was right not really listening to each other kind of debating we would then go cold toward each other for a couple of days still being polite but but you know the difference in a marriage when like we're clearly not on the same page you know like our body language is different our affection is different we talk we're gonna be kind because we don't want to give the other person ammunition to say like you did this wrong but you know you're not seeing eye to eye like you're gonna see a page and then we would come back together have a at some point one person would be like can we talk about this then we'd have this wonderful conversation and I really do mean that wonderful conversation connect to each other's hearts reconcile so what we're learning in our marriage is let's let's invest we're able let's cut out that two days three days of separation of awkwardness of really God dishonouring behavior and let's figure out how we can have that moment where we ramping up we're debating anyway stop and go okay here's what I'm hearing this is what what I feel like you're saying and this is what I'm trying to communicate and lessening that so that we can get to that end healthy conversation sooner and that way we can honor each other better that way and so acting my marriage that's the ongoing challenge of it and sometimes we're doing it really well and then other times it's still not going great but it we're catching it sooner like we're going like all right let's not spiral you know let's not do that now I'll say as a pastor and leading a church of our size we have to do reconciliation all the time all the time so one of the heartbreaking things for me as a church is I think everyone assumes every decision that we've ever made we have 100% thought it out and understand all of the fallout and still make decisions and and then we just almost have this like if it offends people who cares it's just the opposite we're making the best decision that we can it is prayed for it's thought out but there are times there are just blind spots that we don't see and it impacts people in certain ways that is offensive and and what's heartbreaking is so many people will not come and talk to us and I get it there's like intimidation there's fear yeah but they will not talk to us they're hurt we don't know about it and they'll leave or they'll just let that fester in their hearts and then that becomes the lens through which they view everything we do but for us as a church week we always want to have a heart of reconciliation we always want to go through that process and I really do have an open-door policy on that I will meet with people and talk through things or one of our pastors will and and I've had to do that I'll give you example I'll leave the names out of it just because I didn't ask permission I don't think these are friends of mine I don't think they'd be offended at all if they're watching this and and they they'll pick up on to them but there was a couple that a few years ago were really offended by some things that we did and they wrote in a letter an email and it was very clear in their offense it was not a mean-spirited email but it was it was thorough it was it was detailing these were things that were offensive and when I got I remember it was on a Monday I was going into prayer it was email if I remember right maybe were sent directly to me but I think it was sent through the website and it was forwarded to me and when I read it it was heartbreaking to read because I realized we had really dropped the ball on a few things and so I responded to them via email and just owned it immediately man we are so sorry that's a that's a ball drop on our part that is such a thing that doesn't represent our heart I see how that came across and you're absolutely right we're wrong and I think they were shocked by that response because I think people have it in the mindset churches are going to be defensive and whatnot and so we were able to go through a process of reconciliation my wife and I met with this couple went to lunch and and not only would I say it saved the relationship because I didn't really know them as well then it built a relationship so now they're our friends and then they're an active part of our church and then what I love is they're part of one of our teams that was part of one of the creative things we were doing for one of our services this past year and we were making a decision to do something and they disagreed with and they wrote in and we were able to go back and forth saying like I hear you here's my perspective they say I hear here's my perspective in at the end I said I hear you but I'm gonna do this because we think this is what we should do and their response was like thanks for hearing me and then we went on a perfect relationship not mad at each other not angry because we have learned that rhythm a reconciliation so for me in my life then I would just say again this is a church video so if anyone's in our church if someone's if we've done something that's offended them come have a conversation with us I think they'll be pleasantly surprised to know that we're not defensive we'll we'll listen and we'll hear it out and we'll share our sight of it and that's really where the phraseology I could be wrong came for is I always encourage people that's just let's begin this conversation with I could be wrong and if if party both parties will come with that mindset my experience is a hundred percent of the time we can reconcile it's when one party is unwilling to enter the process of reconciliation the reconciliation doesn't happen sure well thank you so much for taking the time to do this I'm sure it helps us all process it out deeper ways and grow in it so thank you so much you're welcome and I really do think this is one of those deals that will look will look back on in years and say like this was a pivotal moment as we keep talking with reconciliation is just to build that culture so I'm excited just to see how it plays out and I would encourage people if you are walking through and you have good stories cinnamon because we love to hear stories we love to celebrate those and I would even love to get some recorded so we can share them with the church if they have ongoing questions don't hesitate they can email in info at the tree dot Church and one of our pastors will respond and help them in that process because every relationship is different and and so you might need ongoing advice and we'd love to provide that for people absolutely thanks Brandon thank you

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