In The Tank (ep200) – Socialism and Modern Monetary Theory

that's where you get the yeah you're right that's that is true no treasure chests full no in fact Jim's not at a Renaissance Fair right now he he went to Space Camp yeah so he said not one of those gyro scoping uh Jim could never fit in one of those chairs across the country as always I'm your host Donald Kendall and joining us today we have Isaac or policy fellow at the center of the American experiment how are you good sir I am present man I almost I almost forgot your title and organization it's been like two weeks since I've seen you man right yeah you can't say research fellow at the Heartland Institute anymore so it's like messing with your mind policy fellow I got that right though but the one that I probably won't get right is editorial director Justin Haskins I get that right finally oh sure I think we should just change my title to whatever you think it is is it I thought I'm not even gonna tell you anymore it's insulting I should not tell you you should know my title if you don't know it you don't feel confident in it then to my left I've got I've got a producer extraordinaire Andy singer hey yeah we have upgraded he's got a microphone maybe he'll get a camera your first task good Sarah is to look up Justin's actual title because I'm pretty sure I got it right not joining us is Jim lakely like I said he's at Space Camp he should be here next week no actually next week I think he'll be at the ICC 13 in Washington DC why 25th ladies and gentlemen in Washington to see the Trump International Hotel all right wait so I think Justin are you gonna be there I'm not know what well I'm not arch enemy of the green new deal I it looked like I was gonna be there and I'm not gonna be there I'm sorry to all the curb they can uh yeah all right to get into the inside baseball details of exactly what happened but although all the audience needs to know is that I won't be there Oh in trash bins taken out to the curb anyways and II might be able to confirm this we're gonna be like live stream in this or something right or all right yeah so yeah so if you're not in the area to be able to go to the thirteenth international conference on climate change you will be able to watch it if you just go to our website heartland org or maybe our YouTube page cetera you know what you know what we've been cool and maybe we can do this next year for I cccccc we could have gone we should have gone to ICC and just done like a live show and that is in the very near future you should we should totally do that next year will we will do that for sure so we're gonna be talking about socialism little modern monetary theory where we get into some healthcare a little bit of energy stuff here as it relates to socialism but before I mention that I do want to say because primarily our audience is all listening through iTunes and Spotify and SoundCloud and all that but if you want to see our beautiful faces we are now live-streaming this on youtube if you want to see the faces behind the voices that works for some of us but Isaac is there too so creeping everybody out Isaac have we talked to you since you were at the White House no I don't think so he's allowed to tell us what happened at the White House so that was that was dope so I was probably 15 feet away from POTUS while he was making the speech and as he walked out I could have shook his hand but I chickened out I just want to go oh he wasn't doing it wasn't like talking to anybody on the way out and like I feel like my your opportunity I am kicking myself everyone but it was really cool I did get to shake hands with Andrew wheeler who's the EPA Administrator and got my picture taken with them and that way I could make that my Twitter profile picture to to show everyone back home fit like all right renewable energy advocates I'm coming for you and then I meant your wheeler yeah we're doing it we're gonna get you we're gonna repeal the clean power plan you're gonna cry but no it was good because I told them that our study doubling down on failure found that the the ACE rule would save Minnesota 7.5 billion through 2050 and he was really excited about that so he brought it or he called his his staffer over and said hey get this guy's information and the next day I got an email from the the staffer that said hey I'm printing the study out for the administrator yeah so that's cool I haven't heard anything back yet so I got a follow-up but it was that was very neat very cool so how long you would just stay on the one day yeah all right all right very cool do any sightseeing or anything like that it's a swamp what is there to see I think the thing that we were talking about the the the item that you were working on are you gonna be able to tease that on this episode or do we have to wait and don't do it now if the answer's yes oh yeah we could talk about it alright I do want to bring that up because Justin and I were just talking about this like a week ago so when we get into the energy stuff I do want to bring that up so very good stuff okay so 200th episode so the only thing that I could so inside context here the reason why there wasn't a live episode last week was because Justin and I were at the Western Western conservative summit in Denver doing a Justin was on the main stage he and I did a breakout session talking about socialism did some radio interviews got to meet a whole lot of liberty-loving people but because we were out we had to pre-record an episode so that's we did the first in the tank deep-dive episode with Lenny Jarrett a policy expert when it comes to education here at the Heartland Institute so we did a full hour-long episode just talking about everything that's in under the education umbrella so if you're interested in that check it out last week's episode so I got back and I'm just calling to confirm my my time can you mute Isaac 2409 Colfax Avenue South Oh perfectly that Betty that perfectly shows ya the amount of prep that we had going into this episode I got back kind of midweek this week just in the same feel so kind of putting this episode together on the fly but it is the 200th episode so I want to show off this book which is what Justin and I were talking about it is authored by Justin himself this was kind of the the backbone of the presentation that we did at Western conservative summit and because this is our 200th episode we want to give away a few copies of this so let's just say the first five people that email us at in the tank pod cast at will get their very own copy of socialism as evil so yeah that'll be our little 200th episode little gift giveaway way is today episode 200 yeah yeah if you weren't on the phone making appointments you know Isaac did the appointment come through did you try to mute my microphone I questioned you sorry I know the light was blinking so I don't know why that happened but whatever yeah I have a leaky water heater so the plumbers come in to fix that see we're working stiffs over here it's not like we're you know just a blue-collar podcast podcast literally have a blue-collar anyways um so before we get to that because I do want to kind of talk about our experience in Denver and the kind of speech and stuff like that give a little behind the scenes I do want to tease once more the podcast I did in the tank deep dive with Lenny Jarret on education and a perfect thing that I came across here this is an article from the Freedom Foundation and it's National Education Association is not about education so it basically talks about how in early July 6,000 of the most ardent union activists of the NEA assembled to vote on the business of the organization delegates agreed to commit NEA resources to causes like advocating for abortion advancing the theory of white fragility lobbying / protesting on behalf of immigrant justice including decriminalizing border crossing training educators to be advisors to help create student gender sexuality Alliance clubs and lobbying to permit civil rights complaints about based on gender identity they also voted down a resolution to reaffirm their focus on education so the size perfectly into what Lenny and I were talking about where it was you know what led to the whole Janice ruling and stuff like that and using union dues to push political agendas and stuff like that and not actually to help student education or anything like that so I thought this was a perfect article and it ties perfectly into that discussion that I had with Lenny and the power of the teachers unions and everything like that so check out that episodes 199 but yeah let's let's talk about our trip Justin so Western conservative summit this you have never been there before correct no yeah same with me Justin and I got to do a little breakout session and a room that eventually I don't know if we want to tell that whole story but we did have a full room standing room only in the back any room only that's right 120 people probably showed up it was great right and then prior to that just prior in fact it was like really cutting it close Justin was on the main stage talking about socialism so Justin what's your experience with the whole thing did you did you enjoy your your trip out to Denver yeah it was it was great it was a lot of fun Western conservative summit is as interesting if you're not from that part of the country it's in Denver call you're not from that area from the West you may not be too familiar with it but it's basically the largest conservative conference outside of Washington DC and maybe New York or something like that the west of New York City for the most part this is the largest conservative conference in America and so you get people from all over the West from California but especially from the Mountain West states so lots of people for where they're from Colorado from Wyoming the Dakotas that whole area a lot of people came out it was a lot of fun we met a lot of met a lot of great people we gave some great information at our presentation which was so much fun I mean I think that was maybe the most fun of any presentation I've ever given in my whole life yeah it was it was a lot of fun we Donnie and I did about an hour and a half right on the stage we were always supposed to do about 50 minutes or so going into it that was our plan and we end up doing an hour and a half and we had questions coming to us left and right and it turned into almost like a borderline stand-up routine so Isaac would be very pleased it was a lot of fun I mean it was it was it was great it was yeah audience was was super into it so a lot of good questions I enjoyed it a lot it was it was great I like stayed up the night before it I actually have my like note cards and stuff like that if I had needed like a crutch to lean on but I went like so far in like this other direction I just like throw away the script and we just kind of freestyled the whole thing and it went as good as I could have imagined we're we are never we are never planning again planning over our new our new strategies to show up with no plan and right let's roll the dice and see what happens because it worked out so well this time yeah we are now we are never preparing ever again yeah it's gonna be snake eyes next time you roll two sixes but next time very possibly but until until that happens that's what we're rolling with yeah we over prepped for Liberty con and it went really well don't get me wrong that that speech would fantastic and then this time around like we prepared I wrote my speech out and stuff like that that's why it was probably so fresh in my head and stuff but yeah we did not stick to the format that's for sure we went an hour and a half I was like yeah if you need to just like shut off our mics kick us out of the room just feel free but then our reception afterwards was fantastic we had like a dozen or so people coming up kind of asking us more questions I think we were like basically out of the books before we even got back to the booth because we kind of we giving away this book here again if you want a copy email us at imitate podcast at but I mean we can get into some of the substance of it because in reality I did a lot of this prep in the last two weeks leading up to it we knew that we wanted to have a whole big section on modern monetary theory so I did a ton of reading on that in the past two weeks but maybe Justin if you want to just give a little kind of spiel about what your main stage speech was all about yeah so the main stage speech so the theme of the conference this year was the First Amendment and specifically there was a heavy focus on religious liberty as it relates to the First Amendment so I talked to my main stage presentation was about socialism and how it reacts how it interacts with the with religious liberty and whether you can have religious liberty and have socialism that was the primary focus of the presentation and so I talked a little bit about the history of that and the ideology behind socialism and why in reality you can't have not just religious liberty but really any kind of moral disagreements within socialism unless you have the majority imposing its will on the minority in society that's the only way socialism works so the the classic example of that there's all sorts of health care related examples physician-assisted suicide abortion contraception whatever your whatever your views are and those things the reality is is that if you have a single-payer health care system you can only have one option either you pay for people's abortions or you don't either you pay for people's contraception or you don't either you pay for physician assisted suicide or you don't and so whatever you side on that issue you fall on the reality is you have no choice so the the will of the majority in a democratic socialist society the will of the majority is imposed on you as a minority regardless of of what your view is on those on those particular things and that's true across the board now it's just some healthcare related issues but on all kinds of different things think about education what did they teach your kids how do they make that decision will they make that decision based on whatever the majority wants and if the majority thinks it's a good idea to teach your kids X Y Z and you think that that's immoral that's wrong you don't want your kids to learn that too bad that's how socialism works so I got into a lot of that that was the primary focus of the presentation and we got a lot of really positive feedback to it and then in our side set in our workshop session that we did together we touched on that a little bit but we touched on all sorts of other things as it relates to socialism we got into great detail on stuff my only regret is that we didn't have it recorded because there was so much good information there but but yeah I mean there's so so much to talk about with socialism right now and people are really excited about that topic so fun yeah no it was fantastic again I think our message was very well received one of the things that we did touch on a lot was obviously the green New Deal I mean obviously being from the Heartland Institute we talked a lot about energy and environment policy and what's what's better to exemplify the left's proposals and the green New Deal so we did the speech we talked about that and kind of what we thought are though the true intentions behind the green New Deal and how if they really thought that this was a plan to save the planet you've probably heard us say this in varying ways multiple times but whatever that if they really wanted to save the planet they really thought this was gonna save the planet then why would they spend a dollar or waste a minute trying to convince us to have all of the other aspects of the green New Deal in there including you know Medicare for all free college jobs guarantees the housing stuff all of that whatever so we talked about that and then it was that night that I came across this article titled a o'seas chief-of-staff admits the green New Deal is not about climate change so I'm not even gonna try to pronounce the chief of staff's name but basically she or he I don't know oh man I think it's a heap but I couldn't say he he said judging from the pronouns that were used okay all right it says the interesting thing about the green new deal is that it wasn't originally a climate thing at all they said to Inslee's climate director and this is recording to a Washington Post reporter who attended the meeting it says do you guys think of it as a climate change thing because we really think of it as a how do you change the entire economy thing so it's just confirmation confirmation that this was in fact the whole agenda behind the green new deal I'm not surprised Justin I assume you aren't Isaac what do you think about this kind of admittance no I mean I think that it's really great I love the fact that they're being so honest about it because you've had people like named Naomi what no or risky's oh that's another one yeah yeah yeah so she's been saying this for a while but nobody really took it seriously like I think that there's been it's not that we haven't known this or suspected this for a very long time like the whole idea of the greens are just watermelons they're green on the outside but red on the inside is something that conservatives and libertarians have talked about for a really long time but we were never taken seriously we are go yeah whatever you're just paid off by the fossil fuel companies blah blah blah blah blah and to have a o'seas chief of staff say this in for it to be reported in the Washington Post right is really good I think it's good for the country because it brings a level of transparency that was not available before and who knows like even if we we can print this verbatim and people would still be like yeah right you know mmm you're just this cope wing thing and but I think I think we're finally gonna start making traction especially talking about just an absolute abject disaster that the green New Deal would have for us as a society yeah not only as us as a society but on the environment itself the we've talked about how a environmentally toxic these ideas are especially when they well I think the green New Deal actually wasn't so harsh on nuclear power am i confusing that was something or is that the case no it was no it wasn't like they were saying they needed to close it necessarily but it did not promote nuclear as a is a way of achieving deviation in the in the frequently asked questions sheet that was put out there on accident or whatever that was one of the things they brought up and they basically said no we're not going to be using nuclear power and right to make this transition so that yeah I think it's right I don't think they said they were gonna close nuclear power plants down I think it was more like we're not going to use that we want wind and solar wind it so any won't wind and solar because they won't work that's that's that's it but there's been so many like iterations of the green New Deal already that nobody really knows what's in it that's what we have to pass it in order to find out that in it great Nancy Pelosi quote you're always quoting Nancy Pelosi what's with that yeah so we have the same exertion all right so Justin you basically allowed me to kind of do my own little monologue slash rant on modern monetary theory because obviously those between that nuclear power these are like my two main interests and that was kind of the other thing that we thought the the green New Deal really kind of showed their hand you know showed their hand that they're just using this as an excuse to push through their socialist agenda but on the other hand I think it really kind of showed what their thoughts are about like how they're gonna pay for all of this stuff and we're gonna get to that a little bit you have a Camilla Harris article that talks specifically about Medicare for all but we'll get to that and what I think is what they really have behind you know the real thinkers the academics quote-unquote behind some of these politicians what they actually are pushing for is a world where we can embrace the ideas of modern monetary theory and if you haven't heard me too talk about this go look up past episodes I'll give a brief Sandoz synopsis of the of the theory itself it's basically that the United States has a monopoly on the US currency and because of that we can't go in default so this is what they believe not me and because of that debt and deficits don't really matter that we can fund all of these programs and stuff like that without having to resort to taxing and basically taxing under the system is just a way to manipulate society in one way or the other or curb inflation so I was doing a whole lot of research in preparation for the speech on this topic because I knew that I was gonna do the heavy lifting on this on this part of the speech so I thought the best source to get information was to read the actual socialist essays on this stuff right so I found a couple and I sent these to you just I don't know if he ever got around to reading them but the first one that I came across both of them actually were in a Jacobin magazine which is just like a flat-out socialist magazine they don't try to hide it I'm pretty sure they're just a flat-out socialist right so there was an essay by Doug Henwood and it was basically an article that was dismissing modern monetary theory as like a fantasy fol system to to basically end around the work of imposing socialism politically and basically like why convince people that socialism is a good idea when you could just do modern monetary theory so he was kind of he's pretty dismissive of the concept and critical of it but in response to that there was several people responded to that and so the one that I have in front of me is from Pavlina cher neva who is a program director and associate professor of economics at Bard College and a research associate at the Levi's Economics Institute she's a big champion of modern monetary theory and generally though her response was terrible it pretty much dismisses all of hen woods concerns but the admissions in this response are unbelievable and this was kind of some of the stuff that I was trying to send to you but just check this out it says so this is her speaking says what I got from the piece is the following this is in reference to hen woods criticism of modern monetary theory says hen would wants to wage class struggle via fiscal policy and specifically tax policy worse he wants to expropriate the wealth of the rich by making it more digestible for them he says that rich people would have a lot harder time complaining about their money being taken to educate kids and to save the planet than if it was taken because they were too rich which sounds very much like quote unquote sorry to be taking your money but we really really need it don't you agree what a class war this person says it says henwood does not acknowledge that one of the most effective ways of engaging in the struggle is to render the wealthy obsolete as in we will stop pretending that we need them to pay for a good society in a world with a sovereign currency and modern monetary and fiscal institutions we never really did and we sure don't now so they're basically trying to say we don't need to tax the rich we could just print money at no end and it says for the record modern monetary theory and this is their words that's what I really want to get across we're not reading tea leaves or anything like that or interpreting stuff or trying to read between the lines this is this is what they're writing for the record modern monetary Theory has always argued for taxing the wealthy to address the problems of inequality and political power so basically they don't need your tax revenue they just want to tax you purely for punitive reasons isn't that like insane yes yes absolutely but people are buying into this and I don't know just some of the arguments that I see on my Facebook page I mean they're they're posting Jacobin magazines so we all know the arguments aren't good but it's interesting to see that people that I actually know think this and some people just think that billionaires as of that as a noun are amoral I think the fact that anyone could have a billion dollars is just a travesty to them so I said well what about JK roll no no is she an evil person yeah and she needs to be taxed just because she's too wealthy according to these people well and bullets just they say that it's it's not only that you know I don't think that they need that much money it's like they are bad people well wait until you get to this other quote because okay okay sorry no no it's it's it gets even crazier yeah so the last quote that I'm gonna read of this Chincha Sharna Rev is says that I would say that hen would like other in quotes tax the rich to pay for progress lefties which I think she should just lower that down to trap lefties which I think would be funny his tethered to though to the wealthy by an imaginary Billick Accord that holds the prog progressive agenda hostage to its oppressors to me this is the definition of itself induce paralysis so they believe that basically the only thing that's holding them back from being will do an act to their socialist agenda is this myth that we need to tax the rich to pay for it so this stuff is like so bizarre she says it's time to cut the cord blah blah blah blah blah but then L Randall Ray who is also a big champion of this modern monetary theory he's another economic professor at Bard College his response to the henwood article was pretty identical to the one that I just read but some of his quotes get even more ridiculous so he basically says that we have to stop pretending like money grows on the rich and then he says I do like high taxes on high-income and high wealth I have argued they should be set as high as to be conscious conscious conscious corey god I can't say that confessed confiscate a Tory he says not at a marginal income tax rate of 70 percent but at ninety nine percent or even 125 percent or a thousand percent take it all this is a direct quote from him he basically says that because the rich are able to shelter their wealth and stuff like that that you have to make the tax rate even higher than 100% to get around that which is so bizarre and he says so what will we do with the tax revenue burn it Uncle Sam doesn't need your money so again this is Tom and Andy's just looking at me with the perfect response which is just slack-jawed and just astounded because yeah this is what they believe they don't need the rich they could just print as much money the only reason they would tax the rich is because in their mind wealth is inherently evil and needs to be taken from them but they wanna see what they believe so like they think the wealth is evil but they also want the wealth for themself I want if they want fairness Sir Thomas so then this was kind of the other theme I guess of our speech was that the idea that like socialism manifests itself differently like basically every generation so you got like the Karl Marx and the Soviet Union whereas just like a flat-out confiscation of the means of production and stuff like that right but then you can go into like the 80s in Sweden when their big end around was to kind of shift ownership of industry from private to public was wage earners funds so it's basically a profit that came from these corporations were shifted into these funds that were used to buy shares in the company so eventually it would shift over ownership shares would be given to the to the workers yeah yeah and then that resulted in basically like the biggest the biggest demonstrations in Sweden history so they eventually got rid of that but it is our theory that modern monetary theory is their track for the 21st century this is the way that they're going to impose their vision of socialism on this country and basically we're here to call them out on it before it gets too big and the big benefit when we catch it this early is it's not like political language injected into this to make it sellable to the public yet you've got these people like this Pavlina Sharon Ewa Shar neva and the who's the stephanie kelton and Elle Randall ray who are just really explicit about their aims for this so this is like the perfect parts to kind of get all that information this is the perfect time for it yeah so really it's it's really important because historically his socialism has always been understood as collective ownership of property you have to actually own property confiscate property take property away and what they're calling for here does not require them confiscating any property at all you don't you don't even need to because historically also if you look at some free-market economists Austrian economics that sort of thing they would talk about how you can have quasi socialism by just the regulatory schemes that are put into place by by various governments right you can just control the economy through regulations but this doesn't even require that either it does to keep inflation in check but it doesn't actually control the economy all they have to do here is pump money into the industries they like government printed money they just print the money and then pump it into the industries they like and then drive the businesses they don't like out of business so they they just determine a control the entire economy by just printing money and then putting it in the places where they want it and then you use taxes as a way to punish people who are perceived to be bad so so you can print a bunch of money so in fossil for instance if you're talking about energy right you print a bunch of money and you give it to solar and wind companies and then you tax fossil fuel companies not because you need the money but because you hate fossil fuel companies they're really bad for the world and so you destroy them so you destroy them with taxes you don't even need to increase regulations at all and you don't need to take any of their property you just drive them out of business by increasing their taxes and then pumping a ton of government printed money into the industries you like and now you haven't actually you don't have any government ownership of property you don't need it because if you are the one that has the money if you're the one controlling the money if you're a man I'm basically a marketplace of one and you decide where all the money goes now you don't you actually control everything without actually having to physically own anything it's a really it's it's it's a genius system in that sense if you a ridiculous system and every other sense but in that sense it's a genius system because it allows you to control the economy without actually owning the property and so they can disavow this idea of socialism in fact in the future they might actually be able to say look this isn't socialism we're not owning anything here right right but in reality that's exactly what it is you're all about central planning it's exactly right it's actual yep it's about Saul about shifting the power to the masterminds in Washington DC that are pulling all the levers and twisting all the knobs and controlling every aspect of the economy yeah it's so bizarre there's even some things in here I was trying to find this specific article that I was reading but there was another instance where they were saying that you know basically they admit like they don't need to tax anyone under this system they could just print all the money and obviously anyone that's got a third-grade degree well know that that'll end up resulting in tons of inflation and stuff like that but they basically said that even if they didn't have inflation they would still tax because that would force people to stay with the US currency and not go to some type of cryptocurrency and stuff like that so this has just got central planning top-down governance written all over it and what in one thing – just touching on the thing that you just mentioned you wouldn't have to raise taxes I was saying this to Donny earlier the really interesting thing about this is not only could you say well we don't have to raise taxes you could actually say we're going to cut taxes right for most people you could say we're going to cut taxes we're gonna cut taxes for everybody except for the the people we don't like we're gonna raise their taxes but we're gonna cut taxes for everybody because again if if you believe that the economy is driven by the money that you're printing the taxes don't really matter taxes are purely there as like a political prop and a way to to punish people you don't like that's all it is and a control inflation right like yeah yeah yeah a little bit yes well though they seem to think that they can control the inflation through regulations predominantly price controls like that yeah so like the the raising taxes rates to to stifle inflation is basically to in do a recession right so but stephanie kelton and i bring her up a lot because she's probably the most kind of front face on this whole idea she was the senior economic advisor of Bernie Sanders political campaign and she was also I always forget this way for economist for the Senate Democrats right chief economist for the Senate Democrats and she basically said that inflation you'll always be able to find what industry is causing that inflation and then be able to deal with those industries on a case by case basis so to me that is like they just will pick energy oh yeah she also said that energy is often where it results from so they could just pick ok energy industry we got to regulate that so that we can say we can stop this inflation so it's just another kind of control panel for them to decide how the economy should run this is 21st century socialism right here and it is horrifying and then the other reason why I think that it like I would put money on it that this is the track that they'll eventually be going in in five to ten years it's the path of least resistance yes I mean do you see like Bernie Sanders in that first debate like struggling to basically explain why us raising taxes on middle class people would actually be good for you this removes that from the conversation you don't have to endorse raising taxes on people to pay for these programs under modern monetary theory to print it like I said you can you can you can cut taxes right here today we're gonna provide single-payer health care and all sorts of other benefits free college tuition we're gonna cancel everybody's student loan debt we're gonna give away all these wonderful benefits and we're gonna give you a tax cut we're gonna do all of it plus a tax cut and because we don't need the money from taxes to pay for anything it's it's so crazy it is all ridiculously crazy but the reason I believe but it's so alluring if you're on the Left it's so it's an idea you want to believe can work because if it does work then it provides you the answer to all of these questions you've had that you know all these questions have been thrown at you for decades and decades and decades about how are you gonna pay for it how are you gonna pay for it how are you gonna pay for they don't have to answer that question anymore it is just it's it's it's amazing it's you know you say like well it sounds too good to be true it's so obviously too good to be true and yet politically it makes it's so powerful that I just don't think that they'll be able to resist it I think if then you know this will become the norm for the Democratic Party they will all be walking in lockstep maybe within the next 10 years 15 years or something like that they'll all be walking away they're going now it'll be next month well yeah yeah Bernie Sanders is already I think totally adopted this idea I think yeah no I know he wants to punish the rich like that's his well that's part of it that's my but he was conceding that he was gonna have to raise taxes on the middle class yeah but I yeah but oh no because only by a tiny amount only by a tiny omits like a 4% tax or something I think that's an illusion I think he's he's doing that because he doesn't want to have to answer the questions that now come all a Harris that's the answer yeah about how you're gonna pay for it yeah let's get to that because I think that that and then some of the quotes from aoc those are the people that are like flat-out adopting this okay like Alexandria Acacio Cortes she was heckled at a town hall meeting where someone's like how are you gonna pay for this after she like rambled off a list of all these things that the government should give people and she's like you know started basically yelling at the guy and like how we have to get out of the scarcity mindset and stuff like that it's just like scarcity is the backbone of what capitalism is it's trying to allocate scarce resources like as best as possible so if she doesn't even believe that like the cornerstone of what economics is then yeah she's buying into this modern monetary theory but ok yeah let's jump into the Camilla Harris thing because yeah this is this is kind of crazy you brought this up to my attention so I'll let you kind of take it away start off with the CNN interview yeah so Kamala Harris had an interview with CNN and one of the things very recently within the past week and one of the things that came up at that interview was her position on health care and there's been some confusion about exactly what she supports and what she doesn't support or whatever so I we don't need to get into that but she she was asked specifically about single-payer health care what do you support in regards to single-payer health care and she basically said that she supported Bernie Sanders Medicare for all plan now one of the things that came up though was well how do you plan on what is the difference really between you and Bernie Sanders and how do you plan on paying for this and essentially what she said was that she has she does not believe that the middle class should have to pay for any of single-payer health care they should not receive a tax increase at all for single-payer health care so then when she was asked what Walt then how do you plan to pay for it she said well we're gonna attacks Wall Street and we're gonna attack some financial services and we have to get out of this mindset notice that that's like a very common thing that the left likes to say right we're we've all been living in this we're all a bunch of idiots who have been living in this so you know economic stupor for hundreds of years where we socially-constructed yeah this ridiculous this ridiculous concept of dead and paying for things and all of that's all web set insane we have to get out of that mindset and start looking at this as an investment in our future we're gonna get something back if we invest in single care help which which on its face okay maybe you could make some kind of an argument about that but that doesn't explain how you're gonna pay for it that just says that it's worth paying for no not a no the question at all that's just that's just basically a way of saying we're putting it on the credit card yeah well right and that's the point she did not ever answer the question except she said we're gonna tax Wall Street and we're gonna tax financial services now to give people understanding of what we're talking about just how absurd and ridiculous that whole idea is Medicare for all at the very very least is going to cost 32 trillion dollars in ten years at the very bare minimum 32 trillion dollars that is actually a very low estimate it's probably gonna be more like 38 trillion dollars in the first 10 years because the 32 trillion dollar figure assumes we're gonna pay doctors Medicare reimbursement rates and hospitals basically lose money on Medicare patients so every hospital in America or most hospitals in America would go bankrupt as a result of that idea but let's just assume it's thirty two trillion dollars you would need in order to pay thirty two trillion dollars you would basically need to double taxes for everybody to come up with thirty two trillion dollars okay you would absolutely have to more than double taxes they come up with that thirty two trillion dollars and Kamala Harris is saying we don't need to to raise taxes on the middle class we can just raise taxes on the wealthy even if you were to confiscate every single penny owned by every single billionaire in the United States every penny I'm not talking about taxes I'm saying if you literally took their house from them all their personal property you sold it all off all the ownership they have in stock everything and you took every penny from them it would be about three trillion dollars probably a little less than three trillion dollars that's not even ten percent of what it would cost to pay for single-payer health care in just the first ten years if you were to take every penny from every billionaire in the entire world just ran around the world taking every penny from every billionaire it would be less than ten trillion dollars so that's not even a third of the cost of what it would be for single-payer health care in ten years so the idea that we can somehow raise taxes on the super wealthy this is somehow going to pay for this is totally insane in fact Alexandria Casa Cortez said well we can fund the green New Deal which is even more expensive than just single-payer health care by raising taxes on those making ten million dollars or more to seventy percent we raise the tax rate to seventy percent on those people and we can fund all of these programs it the Tax Foundation did an analysis of that and they found that at best it would raise three hundred billion dollars with a B over the over ten years that's not even 1% of what it costs to pay for just single-payer health care so when you hear these people get up there and say hey we can pay for it just by taxing Wall Street taxing the wealthy creating a one percent well tax all the stuff it is it is so far from reality it is so delusional that I have to believe that they know that there's no way that they could be confused and think oh yeah we could just raise taxes to 70% now would pay for all this it's one not even 1% so they're either just totally stupid and they have no idea what any of this stuff costs which I don't believe I think it's more likely that they know that it's that there's no way they can pay for it but by throwing these ideas out there cuz the average person walking around they don't know any of this and they're not gonna fact-check and they're not gonna fact-check it so they believe that and that goes back to what I was saying before about Bernie Sanders Bernie Sanders admitted that he would have to raise taxes on the middle class but his taxes on the middle class are only are very small it's not nearly enough to pay for everything I think that was deliberate because when someone answers that asks him that question how are you gonna pay for it he's not gonna say well we're not gonna pay for it and he's not gonna say well I'm just gonna make Wall Street pay for it cuz no one's gonna believe that instead he says well we're gonna have to increase taxes just a little bit but don't worry you're gonna make out you're gonna be better off anyway because you're gonna get all these wonderful benefits and people will believe it because they think well yeah I guess if everybody had to pay 4% or something for a payroll maybe that would come up with enough money I don't know but in reality when you actually do the math it's not even like a tiny fret it's like a tiny tiny fraction of the amount of money so I think it's all just a ruse it's the real the truth behind all of this is modern monetary theory that's what I think I truly believe it because again if your whole plan is to raise taxes and it's not even gonna pay for one percent of one program that you're calling for then how can we then obviously that's not your plan to pay for it you have to know that so what is your plan the plan is we are just going to print the money that is a plan we're gonna print the money and we can pay for it and it doesn't matter it's all an illusion it's all addiction we don't really care about taxes and paying for things the national debt none of that matters anyway well I don't think most people do either I mean something yes yeah I agree I think you're right most people can't pay a $400 expense out of pocket so we have like an entire country full of people who are financially illiterate and electing people who are even more financially illiterate they promise them free stuff yeah I mean this is one of the topics this is one of the things that we kind of bring up all the time where it's like when you're talking about these massive numbers and stuff like that I mean when you put it in like certain terms like this where you're talking about like this these proposals don't even raise 1% of the revenue that you're suggesting that we can potentially get I mean I think some of that kind of seeps through but these numbers are so large that they border on abstract which i think is why the book behind me here socialism is evil is so appealing because it kind of takes out all that economic you know out of the debate it's just focusing on even if it worked it is still at its core evil but yes I do agree that I think modern monetary theory is the track they're going that tax foundation piece that you reference that will be in the show notes is really interesting because yeah they were saying that at best they're responding to a Washington Post article that suggested that a top rate of 70% could raise as little basically a little more than 700 billion dollars over a decade but according to their analysis kind of focusing in on some of the incentives that would be created for people to kind of shift their money around all of the different stuff that would happen that yes at best 300 billion dollars at worst 51 billion right but let's say it's let's say it's 700 billion that's that's 2 percent it's not like it makes any difference I mean there were no no does they can't pay for it like that's the reality that's nothing like this is so much money this is gonna cost so much money there is no conceivable way to pay for it you could confiscate all the wealth you want you could raise taxes as high as you want you can make taxes 90% you can make taxes 95% a hundred percent and then you could create some law that says that rich people can't leave America or we're gonna shoot them you could do anything you want and it will not raise 38 trillion dollars or whatever it is that you need unless you're taxing the heck out of middle-class people that's the only way you're gonna pay for this so the also the target of our project stopping socialism is younger audiences right so they are the people that are embracing these delusional concepts more than anybody else and I think the article you sent our way Isaac would be the kind of the best thing to describe it this is a poll this is a poll that interviewed or surveyed 10,000 plus undergraduate students in college about their majors and their political views basically so you do you want to say what you thought were the the biggest findings of this you want me to read off some of it yeah why don't you do it I'm alright so so so the biggest the headline thing here is that philosophy majors 78% of philosophy majors have a somewhat or very favorable opinion on socialism 78% and then basically anthropology is kind of on its doorstep at 64 percent English majors are still north of 50 percent international relations more than 50 percent socio sociology majors are 57 percent I think the first time we note note note music is also 50 71 percent yeah yeah no this thing drives me nuts this is essentially eventually you get down to Long criminology by 28 percent economics is like what 26 percent five minutes 18 percent and accounting god bless accounting like yeah yeah yeah who study like a county others who study finance and actually understand how things work like there's like there are the people least likely right weren't this cuz they're like this doesn't make any sense qualified to even answer this question there is an inverse relationship between your prospect of getting a job in your field and your view of socialism I mean when you look at this accounting finance economics law on criminology you know pretty practical majors right sure and then you get up to philosophy what are you gonna do with a philosophy degree besides be a barista at Starbucks or or teach philosophy right yeah well that do but there's like eight jobs for that right I think that's why no student loan forgiveness Justin would they know we are not getting back into that we were not getting back into that why do you think this was a backdoor plot economics finance and accounting I think the only people that are very favorable are the ones that went to Bard College and we're taught by people like L Randall ray and Pavlina Shar neva like eight percent that's very favorable to socialism I also think it's important because Donnie and I have been talking about this a lot lately to the sort of personalities with socialism and one of the big personality types and socialism is authoritarians you know you have this sense of like you know better than everybody else and that if only you were in charge you would make the world a better place if everybody just listened to you then it would make the world a better place right and I think that the further up you get into these esoteric sorts of things I think the more likely you are to find those kinds of personalities so you study philosophy or something like that you're you you're maybe more inclined to think you know what if only I'm studying the great philosophers of the world I know so much about how the world works and how humans think and everything if only I were in charge of everything yeah like I could make the right choices and you're and that makes sense cuz you're studying a bunch of people who are trying to answer that question historically that was one of the primary questions that people ask is how do we how do we deal with people how do we make society better from a top-down perspective it's not until you get much later on in the human history that you start having people say hey maybe top-down approaches don't work maybe we shouldn't do that anymore but it makes perfect sense that you would you would find that and sociology is I mean that was one of the top ones that is that is a field that many people say Karl Marx started as sociology so these are all it is not surprising at all in one sense and Isaac exactly right I think the more practical you are about things the more you live in the real world the less likely you are to think we could just print an infinite amount of money and pay for everything and it doesn't really matter the more you live in the real world the less likely you are to believe that the less you live in the real world the more you live in a world in Attica academia where people get paid and get job protection based on how long they've been around and then you can't fire anybody after they've been there for a certain number of years and your whole purpose in life is to teach other people this discipline that no one can actually use in the real world to make any money that's your sole purpose the more likely you are to find people who think yeah this is a great idea we should just have the the printing presses turned on at the Treasury Department and just print an infinite amount of money in and then turn all these little knobs and pull all these levers and control everything from Washington DC if we just put the geniuses in society in charge of everything we'd all be better off it makes perfect sense that you would have this way of thinking Isaac I know I kind of teased it at the front of this podcast but the thing you are working on maybe we can save that for next week because I think that is a very important topic that coincidentally Justin and I were talking about before so are you cool with that yep all right so we'll save that it's an energy related topic but we only have a few minutes here and I there's not necessarily an update on our Democratic candidate survivor pool but Andy if you want to pop that out on the screen there is some potential news going on here going around on Twitter apparently and if you're not hear this all the vehm survivor pool going where we drafted all of the different characters people people who characters running for the Democratic nomination for the for the for president and it looks like John Delaney might be the next one out who if we can get this up here I think Jim has him yeah so there was a story going around that people in Jim Delaney's camp are trying to convince him to drop out of the race so if that's the case and that means that he would be the second one to drop out first one was was Eric SWA well which was Justin's pick stupid guy I hate that guy so maybe by the end I mean I haven't googled it until prior to this episode but john delaney could be the next one out and apparently bado and mike Ravel are also having issues that might well mike repellents we're not having issues I'm gonna film a commercial of me throwing a rock into the water and I'm gonna hang on Harry I saw I saw this it's funny you mentioned beta beta or Beto or however that beta I saw I saw this poll recently that was taken it was like a straw poll that they did in New Hampshire and I think it was st. Anselm's which is like a very big political science program that they have there in New Hampshire they're really big in presidential politics they often host presidential debates and stuff like that they did a straw poll I think and I think they said that beta O'Rourke had zero like zero percent in the poll that they did like literally no way shows him but that's amazing that's just incredible so my question to the panel is who is next to drop out oh my god maybe maybe by next week when we're doing episode 201 we'll have an answer to this but first first one to answer gets their pick the next person you can't pick the whoever you think is gonna feel free to jump in Andy okay he's going with the low-hanging fruit Jon link I think bado but you know I think I yeah and the reason why is because he's I think early on you tend to get the people who thought that they had a chance but then realized that they this is just a money suck and they're not they're losing all this money and so they want to get out and I think that that's that's bait oh he probably has a lot of money sitting in his Senate fund and he probably doesn't want to burn through all that running for office when he knows he has no chance so I think as soon as it looks to him like he has no chance he's out and I think we're really close to that happening Isaac you got somebody yeah I think I'm gonna go with Hickenlooper Hickenlooper okay all right so we've got John Delaney we've got Hickenlooper over here and then you're going with bait Oh Justin I will go with he's not on here he started his campaign after we drafted but I'm gonna go with Tom Steyer yeah Tom Steyer I think he might be out the same reason he wasn't even invited to debate the most recent debate his camp did release a response saying that you know it was his first month and they're not even shooting for this debate but of course this way yeah right the the the second night of this debate will be on Milton Friedman's birthday July 31st so there's some irony there I'm sure he'll be rolling in his grave but all right gentlemen any words of wisdom in the anecdotes any jokes anything you want to get off your chest before we sign off for the week yeah I got some words of wisdom you spell my name is a HC not issa see folks who did that look at the board oh that's the gym stupid gym gym base camp he's at Space Camp yeah all right well I think we should take his president title away from him we will be misspelling dreams all right thank you for joining us for this episode of imitate podcast join us every Friday for a new episode if you would like you can follow us on Twitter at in the tank pod if you liked our show please subscribe rate or View for us on iTunes you can also find us on soundcloud it's your google play pretty much everything nowadays also on youtube of course if you want to send us your comments suggestions questions or just want to be in there for our free little book giveaway email us at in the tank podcast at isaac where can the fine people find you where are we gonna have John no turf Don for episode 200 we were thought about he's too busy selling Windex or something ok folks can find me at the fracking on Twitter and at American experiment org Justin where can the find people find you Facebook and more importantly on Twitter at Justin Baskins look for the big blue beautiful checkmark also gentlemen and update we are increasing the followers are in cars you don't ever meet up alright thank you for joining us and we will talk to you next week

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