Life & the Creation of Infinite Banking with Nelson Nash (BWL POD #0001)


In this episode Nelson Nash and I discuss the genesis of NNI the Nelson Nash Institute Let there be light, and there it was. You know really a couple of words just You know going back to the genesis That’s first the first book. Actually, is before the first book Right then James: When you wrote the first book, Becoming Your Own Banker. Nelson: My Genesis Oh, yeah. Yeah, no question. Yeah, that’s the big book James: In the beginning. Nelson: yeah, there’s 66 of them. James: I want to talk about your book. Nelson: Oh you mean this one? Nelson: Have you read that one? James: I have read that one. Nelson: All right James: I can’t tell you how many times. James: Been pretty recent. Read the whole thing (recently) three times. Nelson: Do you know what it says? James: Yeah, I do. I believe I do. I’m still searching in case I missed anything All right but when you when you created the think tank Right, and then it evolved into IBI. And now it’s the Nelson Nash Institute (NNI) You didn’t You didn’t envision this or create this for a bunch of agents to sell a bunch of life insurance Why don’t you do what you did? Nelson: why? James: Yeah Nelson: Well the vision That there’s something wrong out there in the financial community That banking is necessary or it existed the way that we live today. it’s gotta be but the function is in the hands of the wrong people and when you look at it in depth you’ll find out that they’re evil to the core. Anybody that would lend money doesn’t exist is evil. James: And charge interest on it. Nelson: Yeah If they understand this concept It’s real money and just in a place that cannot invite the money supply There is this real good video out there called Banking With Life (James’ movie). You ever seen that one? James: I have. Nelson: Anyway there’s about 13 personalities in that video including yours truly, but the third one I believe is guy named Paul Cleveland who’s a good friend and Austrian Economist there in Birmingham, Alabama, and he points out that Money is not wealth Wealth is goods and services. That money is the medium of exchange whereby we acquire wealth. the money function I felt is in the hands of the wrong people cause All you gotta do is just see what’s happened during my lifetime How the money supply increased big-time Well what that did was it diluted the power of the medium of exchange? Okay, I graduated from college in 1952 Went on active duty with the Air Force for a couple years because there I was an ROTC Student. that was one of the ways that I worked my way through college. The other way was of two part-time jobs all the time. I was in college Alright. So anyway, do you have any idea of what a second lieutenant base pay was in 1952? $213.75 a month, every month, whether you like it or not. Now you had $75 a month housing allowance, you had $42 food allowance. And you know, we got along very well on that. They compared with everybody else, we lived rather good. Well, consider what’s going on out there today Absurd. Increasing the money supply doesn’t solve anything at all But who caused this? Bankers. They’re the only ones that can inflate the money supply. So it’s in the hands of the wrong people. Well, there’s real money out there and there’s funny money out there, but people can’t tell the difference because they’re just digits to them and such. You certainly know about this place called Tulsa, Oklahoma where the biggest race riot ever occurred was. We talk about 1922-23 which one? James: 1921. Nelson: Yeah Yeah, there was that black community there that was relatively very wealthy Well, it was tragic what happened There as far as the death, but the thing about it is human beings have a tendency to fixate on the tragedy, but they don’t look at the cause. Well find out what the cause is and the cause had to do the fact that the tenth commandment was in effect, thou shalt not covet. And you imagine for white trash watching these real rich black guys living close by Well that Led to disaster. Yeah, but why did the black guys get rich? Money never changed [left] the community until it turned over 30 to 100 times All right, let’s go back to Paul Cleveland and in this great video called Banking With Life you ought to watch that. Wealth is goods and services. So one guy rendered a service somewhere and what did he get as compensation? James: Money. Nelson: Money! All right, that’s real money isn’t it. That’s a representation of something that was real wealth. Therefore that’s real money. Okay, so he’s got that real money and if there’s another black guy over here that got something you’d like to sell and it just happens it this guy would like to buy that. So they strike a deal based on the monetary denomination. All right, so the money flowed from here to this guy and the goods flow over here. All right now, when he’s got that money he finds somebody else and so money never left the community until he turned over 30 to 70 times. Well, that’s the secret of it all there. Well, contrast that with what goes on out there in the big wide world, you know human beings loved to have designations behind their names. MD, PhD and so and so. CRNA all that kind of nonsense. Well in life insurance it’s Chartered Life Underwriter. CLU Now you gotta understand something. You’re getting into the life insurance business and you get to become a member of life underwriters and if you gonna be anybody at all, you got to be here, sometime down the way. And sometimes you’ve got to become a CLU. Well, when I went through the course it was ten parts and it took a couple years. It is equivalent to a master’s degree anywhere One of the books parts was economics. And of all things the economics book that they used was Paul Samuelson’s Economics. That’s the textbook that all the colleges used and so The guy is borderline communist. Good grief. To the extent of what he’s teaching life insurance would cease to exist. They don’t have life insurance in Russia. Oh good grief. So here I am studying that course and I come across this idea that Samuelson’s describing. He says the government taxes the economy ten billion dollars. Well, that’s money coming into the government. Right James? James: Yes Nelson: Alright. Now the government’s gonna spend it he says. Then, it’ll turn over three times and so that stimulated the economy. Well, being of the Austrian school of thought for some sixty two years now. I deliberately failed that course. I’ve only failed one course in my life, and it was economics. CLU studies. James: That’s funny I don’t care who you are. Nelson: I’m also pretty proud of the fact that when I was in college. The first year there, there’s econ 101. And I made a d-plus. That’s Delta plus not bravo plus okay. I’m proud of that fact because that way I didn’t have to wash so much nonsense out of my brain. All right. Anyway, so I deliberately failed the course, CLU Studies, on the final examination. and I said, yes, so what Samuelson said here is true, but this is also true. Al Capone the notorious gangster He steals ten billion from the American public He’s gonna spend it That’ll turn over three times That stimulated the economy, too. Therefore we should have more Al Capones. And they didn’t see any sense of humor in that at all and they flunked me. I took the course over, gave them their answers, and they gave me a designation. and I’ve got a… what do you call it? Certificate! Hello. That is all framed and so forth and I’m a CLU. Well, eight years ago Getting old and stuff like that. Where were we living there was more room and more yard to keep up with than we need to be doing in our ages. We downsized and I found that diploma. It was in a closet facing the wall, And I was gonna ashcan it, but David says no, I’ll keep it. So I hung it in my garage. So if you wanna come see my CLU study, my CLU designation. Come visit my garage when you come to Birmingham next time. James: So, The Nelson Nash Institute Banking is in the wrong hands. Nelson: Yes James: the banking functions. Nelson: Yes James: People don’t really realize that they have really, they’ve abdicated their responsibility. Nelson: Sure! James: You create this institute though, but you didn’t do it for agents to go out and write a lot of life insurance Nelson: No, that wasn’t the objective at all, that’s just the means of accomplishing that result You know Emerson said’ “The end pre-exists in the means.” “the objective pre-exists in the means.” Look to the means. Now my mentor Leonard Read quoted Emerson quite a bit and I always liked him. But when I found out that he was highly influenced, at one point, with that guy from Walden Pond what was his name? [Henry David Thoreau was his name] Anyway We’re all looking around, Walden Pond? Nelson: Yeah, Walden Pond. Yeah, I can’t think right now but Anyway Those guys were the guys that caused the the War of Northern Aggression and so I have a hard time quoting Emerson as a result, but no he was a good guy, but you know It watched a lot people get led astray and that’s not good Yeah But anyway life insurance companies it’s impossible for them to increase the money supply. it can’t be done. All right, so I meet this guy named James Neathery and he convinced me that buying life insurance is a pretty good idea. Well, I signed my name on the dotted line and I get examined and stuff like that and the policies issued. What am I going to give him? James: Money. Nelson: What kind of money? James: Cash. Nelson: Real money. Something I’ve earned out there for goods and services of some kind or another. All right now. James is going to earn something for his efforts there. Oh, that’s real money that you got right? James: Yes, sir. Nelson: Okay now. Most of it is going to the life insurance company. It is real money. Well, they’ve got to pay their hired help. You can’t run any business without admin staff. It’s impossible That’s real money to them. Well, most of it is going to go. Uh Build things that are like, come downtown Birmingham in Fifth Avenue. 20th Street is a civic center of Birmingham. They’re four buildings there and three out of four or either two owned or totally financed by Equitable life. That’s real money Am I right? Yes. All right. Now, how do they recover? That investment. Well, they provide office space and so forth. Well whats people got to give them? Real money. So you see if We get this thought across to enough people out there then they can learn how to secede from the system. You don’t have to change it front top-down You can’t be done top-down. It’s impossible because of the folks that Created all the inflation and so forth. The bankers have been poisoning the minds of people for such a long period of time it’s not going to happen. but in that community you can. I conjured up this phrase James. How is IBC to survive in a hostile financial environment? and one of our practitioners modified it. He says, no. How to survive – – and thrive – – in a hostile financial environment. So you see this is a work in progress and people are adding to it all the time. James: So you’re pretty pleased with the The execution, you know the structure, the activity of NNI and what’s going on there as far as you know training agents in Austrian economics and what you Discovered what you could do with life insurance and the structure. Nelson: Well, when I figured all this out about 35 years plus ago. I saw that this had to be taught out there and it can’t be taught top-down. I tried that attack and it was a miserable failure and I thought academia was the way to get it taught and that was even worse and So I saw that it had to be done, down at the you and me level and I also saw that I’m not going to live forever. That I needed to find people that would grasp this and take the baton and go. And I had a couple of abortions there with people that Had real good manage and so forth, but had problem with direction. You ever heard the term vector? James: Yes. Nelson: Vector is the force in the direction without both qualities, you don’t have a vector, okay? so to illustrate you know, I’m airplane driver and so here’s the airline pilot with his load of passengers and he says about halfway through the trip, he says folks I have some good news and bad news. Says the good news is we’re making good time, but bad news is we’ve lost our course James: They’re gonna get somewhere they didn’t mean to go pretty quick. Nelson: And so That was a real big blow and so forth. Well as time went by here was this guy named Carlos Lara that got interested in this and he didn’t catch on immediately it took a while. In which he readily admits, but I guess he’s got the most thorough understanding of this of anybody I know. I’ve always tried to get this across to my Austrian friends, but they’re too busy with Whatever they were pursuing then. I never could get their attention at all. Carlos Lara somehow or another got up with a guy named Bob Murphy that lived there in Nashville, Tennessee. How they got together is an interesting story in itself, we’d don’t have time to pursue it right now, but anyway it was Carlos that convinced Bob that he had to read my book. Then Bob says that – he’d read the book. He says when he’s right about everything but there are 10 things that he’s missing and so forth. So he reread the book and he said no, there’s only nine that he’s missing. He finally got down it wasn’t anything wrong. James: It was him. Nelson: It’s a funny story the way Bob tells it. We’ll never get the mission done without the intellectual community. That’s all there is to it. And Bob Murphy is the key to it – If there’s anybody that can understand it totally, it’s Bob Murphy out there and he’s the key to the intellectual community. Well, fortunately my youngest daughter married. Well, a guy named David Stearns. Of course, he wasn’t all that enthused about buying life insurance when he first married my daughter, but that was the only way we get it done. So he was slow learner too but, there’s no better practitioner of the concept out there than David Stearns. If there’s anything it gives me real joy at this late stage in life today. Is that Those three guys are everything I’ve ever dreamed of. So the future is in great hands and there’s great practitioners out there. Nelson: Life is good. James: Life is good. So it’s going in the right direction. The Delta that’s correct. That’s good. Nelson: Did we talk about this? James: Well, we didn’t use the word revolution. We’re moving money from. Nelson: Well, it is a revolution to individuals but not the masses will never catch on to this. They’ll never catch on to this. You see they’re so indoctrinated by the banking community. That when you try to describe something like this. They think it’s crazy. You see when I first saw this vision. It was kind of an instantaneous thing. And I tried to suppress it for two years because I said nobody would believe me and I can make a real good living just selling life insurance and teaching individual clients and so forth and that would be it but The fire would not go out. I know what that burning bush and Moses was all about. That this had to be taught big time and so well I started teaching it to individuals or small groups of well the conference room that I used mostly held 18 people and I was trying to get it done in two and a half hours time, but it was going over everybody’s head. Fortunately I had this experience years ago that With a guy named Larry Wilson, Wilson Learning Corporation. He was the guy who created counselor selling. He was a school teacher had a real bad habit of spending 1.25 times income James: Was he a Doctor? I’m kidding. Was he a doctor? Nelson: No, no. Anyway, he had to get another occupation got into life insurance business did extremely well. But it bugged him. He couldn’t explain. Why was he good? He called himself an unconscious competent and although he had four children, at the time. He decided that he was going to find out why. So he took off a year and says I will find out why am I good. When you start searching the answers appear as if by magic. You gotta want to is the thing, what it amounts to. He found that the answers were there pretty much for the asking, but he also ran into something else. It’s called syllogism He ran across the path of BankAmerica who was looking for Someone to create a sales training package for their bank and that’s how council selling was born. It was a 40-hour block of instruction designed to be put on 4 hours at a time over a 10-week period of time. Anyway, you know, we became very good friends and such. My partner in life insurance business back in those days with equitable was Lamar Phillips We used to put it on for the general public and such. So based on that experience I saw that I was making a big mistake of trying to get this in a package at 2 1/2 hours. So, I rewrote the course. I just put it into five parts and designed it to be put on two hours of time over a five week period And then I got a group of 18 people. The oldest one is 75 the youngest one is 25. Males, females all different kinds of occupations and such. I wouldn’t let but one life insurance guy in the room. All right At the end of the first session there 60% of them hung around are wanting to ask questions and I told them, go home. It’s over. I’ll be here Thursday night six o’clock next week and I deliberately did not call a one. I wanted to see what would happen. 20 people showed up. More than the same 18 people, but others said you got to hear this and by the third session they were all saying you need to write a book. You need to write a book. Now you’re too young to remember Paul Harvey, aren’t you? James: No I remember him. Nelson: Okay! Well now, you know the rest of the story. That’s how the book came to be. James: So then you had a bunch of financial professionals and agents say Nelson we want to do this too. How did you know the Think Tank develop out? Nelson: Well, I’ve been putting on this seminars before the book came out. Quite some time I guess but at least four years. I was using overhead projectors and box of slides and so forth. Stuff like that. And anyway, this is guy up in Iowa that said You need to know Kim Butler in Phoenix, Arizona. I didn’t know her and she didn’t know me. Anyway, I looked around for somebody to introduce me and nobody ever could. Couldn’t find anybody. Finally, I gave up just called her she wasn’t in, she returned my call. I wasn’t in we play tag, probably five sessions before we finally got together. Early one morning. I was out in the yard puttering around and Mary yells at me. Telephone. Kim Butler is on the phone. I introduced myself and said I wrote this book. The manuscript I’m gonna send it to you. I’d like to see what you think of it? Anyway, she said I’ve been looking for this here since Anyway My wife and I’ve been working with Dr. Clarence Carson on publishing books so forth Carson was my number two man. Leonard Read was Foundation for Economic Education, was my head guy. But number two man was Clarence Carson a historian there in Alabama he wrote history from the economic point of view, from a natural point of view. Well economic. anyway We all work with him for something like 22 years and It was the influence that I got from him about how to publish books and so forth. So we knew how to self publish. We knew something about ordering books and such. How many did you order from this printer we’d been using for Clarence? and Mary said 500, that’ll last forever. Anyway when I went out to do the seminar for Kim Butler. She bought 100 copies immediately. I place an order for 2,000 Mary said,” You’ve gone nuts.” I called and I said add another thousand. Well The books done rather well. It’s in 31 countries and changed the lives of lots and lots of people. Most of them you’ll never meet. True, yeah. But it’s pretty gratifying. To have them call and say you’re changing my life. I said no, I didn’t change your life. You saw something of value and you changed. Without you, you’re doing nothing. Back then in my North Carolina days when I was a forester. At one time, I was president Chamber of Commerce. Well I admit that I got to select the speaker for the annual meeting. Would be an airplane driver, I picked William Piper, Piper Aircraft Company. He’s about 82 years old at that time and I was about 30. I mean what an experience. Spend you and me time with a guy like that. Anyway, we had fun just visiting but one of the messages he got across to our group was he says You have a telephone. Big deal. If somebody else doesn’t have a telephone then you don’t have a thing. All right, what’s the message? You may have the best message in the world. You may have the best delivery system in the world. You may have the best technique in the world. But if you don’t have a receptive listener, you don’t have a thing. So the magic out there is if people see this vision and catch on guys like James Neathery. You know, thank you for saying my name you could throw that around all you want. That’s alright. Yeah? Okay. I’ve looked at. I’ve come to learn that, you know, it’s really the message. Is really ultimately freedom and controlling the banking function. Sure! Absolutely. The means is just the life insurance structure. It’s the only thing that meets the It’s the perfect solution, but people won’t realize that because you see they’ve been concentrating totally on the death benefit and then of all things that after the advent of the World War II here comes all these GI’s off of active duty and The socialists that we’re in charge at that time said, oh that’s going to ruin the economy. That wasn’t true, but you know, they were running the show. Listen, we got to give them something to do so that they’ll work their way into the economy over a period of time. And so let’s send them to college. Not all that. We will solve another problem will increase the intellectual capital and so we’ll kill two birds with one stone. GI bill greatest thing ever happened. Well, what happened was 108 degrees opposite. Tom DiLorenzo, who’s a big, he’s a good friend. We’re first-name basis big time. He points out that there was a totally opposite result. And colleges became diploma mills. And today we have people out there that have college diplomas that can’t read the diploma. So those Harvard MBAs that came out that has created an atmosphere of I guess you might call it a pecking order or something like that, but these are the folks become the big-time bankers, what not that increase in money supply and so forth. And that’s evil, but people don’t recognize evil. You gotta recognize what evil looks like. You got a recognize the devil is a wily creature unless you understand what he look like you won’t recognize him. So the means here is a place that cannot inflate the money supply and if you had this closed community that life insurance creates it’s always increasing in value. Everybody should be doing this sort of thing, but that’s Incomprehensible to most people. I don’t know whether they’ll ever happen or not but It doesn’t matter whether it happened or not. You don’t have to live that way again, how to survive and thrive in a hostile financial environment. You can’t describe the joy and peace of mind that comes from having the banks out your life. You know, I’ve worked, I’ve done seminars for folks like you all over the country for the last 20 years plus. See I’d been doing the seminars way before the book ever came out. Anyway, years ago I was doing a seminar for this guy in Thousand Oaks. Region of Los Angeles, high rent district. By the way, that’s just a lie. There’s not a thousand oaks, I’ve counted them. I’m a Forester. There’s only 976. Anyway, the sponsor was Arkady Milgram a Russian Jew that came here in 1989 I guess it was something like that. He was able to get out of Russia. But with only a hundred dollars in his pocket. That’s all he could take out. Done extremely well. Never discovered the life insurance business until about eight years ago now. He had 25 Russians there and about 20 of us USA types and halfway through the seminar. I’m telling people what a peaceful stress-free way of life it is when you get the banks out of your life. And bolt of lightning hit my feeble brain about that time. God is good. I’ll tell you. I said to myself, my word what an opportunity right there in front of me on the front row is a lady doctor from Russia. A neurologist. I’m going to pick her brain right in front of everybody and I have no earthly idea what that woman’s gonna say. I’m gonna take a chance. Doctor what heart does stress play in medical maladies. Her response, “it all starts there.” So I asked the group in your life and the life of your peers, what do you see is the biggest stress factor. a chorus came back. Money. This is how to totally control the money factor in your life. In a place that cannot inflate it. But you got to get across the message to the next generation. Well, what are they exposed to out there. Noise. Yeah, the hostile environment, big time. So we got a patient with them and so forth. There’s some people that will not catch on and you can’t help it. But you know You just have to recognize that you can’t force-feed this sort of stuff. You can’t inject it into their brains They have to catch it. They had to be fertile soil. Receptive to superior seeds. Now you know the longer you do this sort of stuff out there. You can run into some superior people. Then you know a lot something that I’m talking about there, you know with all the books that you read good grief. Can you imagine what it was like to have Leonard Read as your personal friend and mentor. Sit and jaw with him like this and such. And if you could pick up the phone and call him and if he didn’t have something pressing that he would take time and talk to you and so forth. I mean golly. James: I think I’m as close to that as any living man today could be. Nelson: yeah Okay, I got your phone number. Nelson: All I knew is gathering seeds and trying to find some fertile soil to plant them in, that’s all. But you got to understand that you’ve met the superior seeds in fertile soil, but you also get weeds. You got to recognize weeds. What if you get rid of the dang weeds then the superior stuff stand out like a sore thumb. Well how complicated can this be? Good lord. But therein lies the problem. People love to complicate things don’t they? Well why? I don’t want to say So do you think the practitioners at the NNI will be able to continue to carry the message to the next generation? I have high hopes. We think some very very good candidates have come along. See we made a big mistake when we were first formed the IBI. We had it open to anybody that wanted to but You know, I’ve been singing in choirs for 75 years and so forth I had to quit here recently that’s been real painful for to me to do that doggone it but our minister of music at our church is one of those very very outstanding people. He’s the Head of the School of Fine Arts at Sanford University Anyway Here’s this pianist that’s been with us for quite some time. He’s a very young fella and He’s got along very well. Well, he wanted to go to the next level. Well in order to do so he had to meet with a Say five people in the Department of Fine Arts there. To go through an interview to determine whether he was a candidate or not. And so I suggested to College Bob and David that that’s what we should do. So we adopted that immediately and Now we won’t even let anybody go through the course until they’ve gone through it 30 to maybe an hour Interview to find out what motivates you. what you want to do this for? and so forth. We’ve had to turn down some folks. They just won’t fit. James: What a shame. Nelson: As a result of the candidates getting veteran veterans. Some in the relatively recent past they’re spectacular. I mean gosh, I wish I’d live a few more years to see the results of them. Yeah he’ll be on film in a minute. So there’s the interview process they have to do the coursework, Austrian economics, and then there’s uh, you know some education on life insurance that they didn’t get from the home office or any of the insurance companies because this wasn’t created by the insurance companies. It was discovered by you. I saw something that they were leaving out and so forth. You see the heck of it going back those Harvard MBAs as a result of it home office is a life insurance companies decided That they had to be everything to everybody. And there’s no way. That’s not. They don’t understand the power of what they really have they don’t understand what can be done with this thought process. Well, some of them are beginning to catch on out there today and that’s the glorious feeling but it’s not an overnight process with them because They got weed out a lot of old kind of thinking that they had there that dominates everything. James: Pretty difficult to unlearn Nelson: always the hardest job in the world is to unlearn. Thank you for listening. If you’ve enjoyed the content leave us a like or a thumbs up share us with your friends Give us some feedback and we’ll see you next time. You

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