Noam Chomsky vs. Angsty "Socialists"



yeah I had a question for professor Chomsky I was wondering that given that the Democrats supported the war in Iraq and according to carries well at least promised to stay the course of Iraq with forty thousand more troops given that even years before the war on the Democrats just like you professor Chomsky supported UN sanctions against Iraq which claimed the lives of millions of children given that even the most left-wing Democrats like Maxine Waters for example that you had raised and and also like you professor Chomsky don't oppose this racist system of capitalism outright but rather seek a more rational and Lynn lightened form of imperialism and given that the the masters of the Democratic Party just like the Republicans are the capitalist why why why have you come come out and lined up behind Kerry saying that small differences between bush and Kerry can lead to very different outcomes now I am with the Sparta's League and unlike you we fight for class struggle against imperialism I'm sorry but we face working class party that will fight for socialist revolution and if you care to find the truth in a newspaper a working-class perspective that takes a side with the workers and tells the truth check out workers Vanguard good idea first of all all these things you said are given are false and you can easily find that out second everything you said that was given is false secondly did I support the sanctions I strongly oppose the sanctions I'm sure I oppose them far more strongly than you did [Applause] you had your say anyone who wants to find out can anyone wants to check anyone who wants to check and find out I was bitterly condemning the sanctions the massacres and so on all through the 90s you can find that out very easily one point you said is correct there is a what small differences in a very powerful system can have large outcomes if the Spartacus League cared about working people poor people people elsewhere in the world who suffer and so on they would care about the large outcomes that follow from those small differences if you don't care about what happens to those people and you want to live in some abstract seminar somewhere then you don't care but it's a fact and we can't deny well first of all my own view as you may or may not know is that elections are a relatively insignificant aspect of what we ought to be doing I mean they're the propaganda system including the media tries to get you to focus you know laser-like on the fact that once every four years you have a chance to vote for two very similar candidates from the business party that's not the important form of political activism if we want to stop being a failed state and become a Democratic Society the things are going to happen to have to happen in between the four year period you want to say take pick Haiti a take Haiti the poorest country in the hemisphere how was our state elected our steed was elected because in the slums and the hills of Haiti where most of the population lives there was actually a lively vibrant civil society organized with a lot of grassroots movements and other kinds of activism and nobody has paid any attention to it because pay attention to what those guys are doing but to everyone's amazement they succeeded in electing their own candidate and vote heavy the US had a candidate in that election a World Bank official who everyone assumed would sail through at all the capital and everything else he got 14 percent of the vote they succeeded in developing a democratic society that could elect someone of their own we can't even imagine that we can take lessons from Haiti about what democracy is and it's not showing up every four years and saying vote for me that's not what democracy is it's all the things that happen to build up a democratic culture where you can run your own candidates now you don't have to choose between you know two men born to great wealth and political influence who went to the same elite university and joined the same secret society in our financed by the pretty much the same corporate the sources that allow them to run yeah then she'd get a Democratic Society what are the differences I think you know as well as I do there are differences in the bushes minute the people around which happen to be in a very extreme end the vanitha narrow spectrum there they are very dangerous internationally they're not only the invasion of Iraq but many other things they're pressing for development of military programs which probably may very well do us all in I mean Clinton was pushing them to but not at this level they've compelled the Russians to respond Russia has tripled crop roughly tripled its military expenditures since they came in and developing new offensive military weapons as a perfectly predictable reaction to the vast escalation that they are carrying out they're developing new kinds of nuclear weapons with are called low yield nuclear weapons bunker busters which sounds kind of nice until you read the technical literature and discover that both the Russian and the American strategic analysts agree that the point of the bunker busters is to destroy Russian command bunkers with nuclear weapons hidden inside mountains just like ours are so that they'll be vulnerable to a direct attack and they're responding exactly as everyone knew by extending their offensive military weaponry threatening us China's gonna do the same and so on that's extreme Bush like Clinton might pursue similar programs but nothing at this level domestically there's a very substantial difference if you look at tax programs you know the social benefits programs and so on the people around Bush are making a very dedicated effort to dismantle and destroy the entire array of progressive legislation and achievements that's been reached in the last century okay now the Bush Clinton people aren't all that much different but they don't have this visceral hatred for democracy and social welfare that you find in the bush programs but they're not going to push through a tax Grahame like wishes well those are small differences but they do translate into big effects [Applause]

42 thoughts on “Noam Chomsky vs. Angsty "Socialists"

  • PROF NOAM CHOMSKY IS RIGHT: "The people around Bush have an extreme hatred for those (American citizens) who need welfare social programs- as well as Clinton, too….but people around Bush have a visceral hatred for those (American citizens ) who need welfare social programs" —Then why the hell are some of you joining the American military for? Only an jerk would defend a country like ours.

  • PROF NOAM CHOMSKY IS RIGHT: "The people around Bush have an extreme hatred for those (American citizens) who need welfare social programs- as well as Clinton, too….but people around Bush have a visceral hatred for those (American citizens ) who need welfare social programs" —Then why the hell are some of you joining the American military for? Only an jerk would defend a country like ours.

  • God what is it with these people and newspapers?

    Every splinter of a splinter of a splinter of a socialist group shows up at rallies that aren’t at all about them trying to sell everyone their foofoo ass newspaper lmao

  • Right now is not the time for attacking Democrats. We need to Unite and support the most electible candidate to get Trump out of office. Bernie Sanders has consistently had the largest winning gap against Trump even in 2016. Stop letting Biden, Beto, Harris, Buttigieg, Booker, and others attack Bernie. The Anti-Semitism and Elder Abuse is frankly disgusting and I am ashamed to be a registered Democrat because of it!

  • The Spartacist League are a disgrace to the Marxist and Trotskyist movements. There are plenty of good Marxists and Trotskyists who are actually doing good political work and try to avoid petty leftist infighting. I am a Marxist myself, so I have some disagreements with Anarchists like Chomsky, but I still respect the work you are doing and consider you my comrades. Please don't be put off by this fringe group of ultraleftist clowns.

  • Those socialists, of which I think this women is one, who don't care about making people's lives better as much as they do about trying to bring about their system absolutely disgust me and I place them on the same level of contempt as fascists.

    It's about improving the world, not "winning the battle". I love Chomsky because he understands this

  • Has the first woman ever listened to anything Chomsky has ever said? You have to be extremely stupid and annoying to piss Noam Chomsky off. I never thought I’d ever hear him raise his voice.

  • She's no Socialist….she's misinformed and I suspect a plant of some organization….or simply an idiot. Still….Haiti is a beacon for the rest of the world.

  • As soon as she started to imply that he was some kind of partisan democrat I started to cringe – I knew for the first time that I was about to hear the rare occurrence of Chomsky lose his temper with someone.

  • After an initial disapproval of far too many "given thats", I took the trouble to arrange it in a more readable way.

    Given that:

    (P1) Democrats support the war policy against Iraq and Afghanistan; (true)
    (P2) Democrats supported UN sanctions against Iraq; (true)
    "Ad Hominem Tu Quoque" at the person of Noam Chomsky; (questionable/false)
    (P3) Left-wing democrats "don't oppose this racist system of capitalism outright"; (true)
    "Ad Hominem Tu Quoque" at the person of Noam Chomsky; (questionable/false)
    (P4) Left-wing democrats "seek a more rational and enlightened form of imperialism"; (true)
    "Ad Hominem Tu Quoque" at the person of Noam Chomsky; (questionable/false)
    (P5) Both republican and democratic parties are controlled by capitalist interests; (true)

    Then:

    (C1) You give intellectual support to established corporations/institutions/media; (false)
    (P6) You present a public image of social criticism, in favour of anarchism; (true)
    (C2) You are a hypocrite. ("Ad Hominem", and false)
    (C3) You are not a true leftist. ("No True Scotsman", flawed)
    (–) You should do like us. (Non-argument)

    Apart from personal attacks and flawed reasoning, she does have factual points. Maybe Chomsky lost emotional control and fell into trying to defend himself and attack her attitude, instead of what she claimed. It's understandable, though.

  • He's not talking to democratic socialists he's talking to the Spartacist League. They are like the Bolsheviks. The Soviet Union was socialist for about 9 months after the revolution then the Bolsheviks took over and it became a one-party state capitalist society – meaning all economic activity was filtered through the state.

    If you think they represent the left then you must think the KKK represents Christians – otherwise you'd just be a hypocrite.

  • Trots = middle class authoritarians who think the working classes need them to tell them what to do and how to live and no matter how many times the working classes tell them to fuck up and fuck aff they never listen.

  • I often wonder how these kind of so-called socialists expect to achieve anything when they're nothing more than aggressively sectarian and constantly pontificating rather than engaging.
    I've paraphrased something Chomsky says here and try to apply it to my beliefs all the time: you can either live in an abstract seminar or in the real world. Either keep your beliefs in an imaginary lecture theatre or defend them through debate, apply them to real life and engage with people. I cringe when I see small left parties splitting into even smaller parties because four of them thought Stalin was awesome (I'm looking at you, CPGB-ML). Do they really think the average working class person is going to be attracted to this?

  • What a buncha jerks. You know these types of "orthodox" and "authoritarian" "leftists" are still around making it so much harder for leftist movements to get anywhere. Example… You wanna go on a subreddit about socialism and have a decent conversation there maybe test the water for some organizing or creating an online study group? Well, yeah but no, first you have to contend with an army of dedicated soviet trolls who will do unspeakable things just to get a position as mod or admin and beat everyone over the head for not accepting their blatantly irrational crap.

  • Spartacists are a Trotskyist cult that deals more with pedophilia than anything "class based". Trotsky wouldn't spit their way.

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