Recapping Fantasy High with Rick and Lou

– 20 Presents Fantasy High, Extra Credit, a weekly talk back show, where we chat about
newly streamed episodes of previously behind the
paywall only episodes of Fantasy High, leading up to the beginning of our live weekly Twitch game, with the original Dimension 20 cast in a returning adventure
in the world of Spyre. My name is Brennan Lee Mulligan. I’m your humble host and dungeon master. And I’m so excited, I’m going to make a couple quick announcements, ’cause we’ve had some
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stuff that there ever is, you gotta head over to, sign up, cool. With me today are our incredible guests Rick Perry and Lou Wilson! – Howdy. – Rick Perry is our production designer, our set and mini guru. The maestro extraordinaire behind all of the incredible battle sets, minis, and the dimensional dome itself. Rick, thanks so much for being here today. – [Rick] My pleasure,
thank you for having me. – And we have, of course, Mr Lou Wilson, AKA Fabian Seacaster, AKA Kingston Brown. – There it is. Hey, thank you so much
for having me today, I’m excited to be here. – Oh, beautiful! Gang, we’ve just screened episodes 11 and 12 of Fantasy High here on Twitch. Holy moly. These were some big ones! This was after Murph shot
Daybreak in the head, and we had to do a couple months of downtime all of a sudden. – Still the most, I think, intense moment. Like the murder-suicide in
episode one was like, “Whoa!” But there was like a, but those were NPCs, they’re grown men. It was like a real moment to watch Riz “The Ball” run up and brain a guy. – Yes. A high school freshman
shooting an unconscious man in the skull and ending his life. – Yes. – Daybreak did try to
create the apocalypse. – Fair, but, I mean, so it was a service, but also, hot damn. – Incredibly violent episode. – Yep. That whole fight, and the torturing of Ragh Barkrock that happens. – So yeah, that’s where
we start the episode is with Ragh, is with
Gorgug underneath Ragh, putting him in a headlock. And we have this incredible moment of, at the beginning of this episode, this is a couple lines
that Ragh says here. I think he says the thing of, “If anyone messes with you guys.” You like conscript him to help iron out your rep at the school. He says, “If anyone messes with you guys, “I’m gonna them.” I think he also says, “When Coach Daybreak tells me to jump, “I say please” or something
along those lines. – It’s like, yeah, ’cause then, remember, Ally’s response immediately after is, “Yeah, that’s the phrase.” But yeah. Yeah, you were real, Ragh
was real off on that one. – Real off, and then
we did this time skip. We had, the gifts were
revealed to be from Fabian. Fabian’s wonderful gifts, which Lou contacted me outside of game. – I was a very, I was feeling very emotional
towards my fellow PCs. And truly was like, “Fabian
would like, buy them something.” He would! It’s just like, it’s in his nature. He’s got all this money, he
has to do something with it. Of course I like buy my
friends like dumb stuff. So yeah, I just emailed Brennan. And I think I had a list, I created all the gifts, and I was like “Give him this, and give
her that, and give her”– – He has a list. – Yeah, it was a whole– – And then I gave them
all magical properties. – [Lou] Yes. – Which I was like, this is so cool, and sweet, I definitely want to give them all these magic items. So this was a really fun ep too because we did this time skip and I had to mull all
this information around. There was also a thing that, I’ll give you guys a little
behind the scenes here, it’s something that was, I don’t think has ever been addressed,
even on the Discord. – [Lou] Oh, is this an exclusive? – This is an exclusive, this is a Twitch exclusive.
– Oh this is a talk back exclusive. – What ended up happening was, this was an episode where Sklonda Gukgak was basically like, “We are following the palimpsests, “trying to get them extradited “from the Harvest Men who have “brought them to Highcourt.” Right? And what’s interesting with that is, that was a total
fabrication of the bad guys. The palimpsests obviously
never left Elmville. But there was an element
of that story line where, I don’t think you guys
ever discovered that that was a total fabrication. So if any of our viewers
have been wondering, that was all set up by
KVX and everything else. That was like, that idea of like where the palimpsests have gone, that was a total fabrication
of the PC session that everyone did, so that’s
a little exclusive here. – That’s a classic Brennan intense story level thing that me as a PC, just (whooshing) clean over my head. – When this stuff occurred to you, is it like, is it– – You know, you’re trying
to run this vast conspiracy in your mind that maybe
people plumb the depths of, or maybe they don’t, or
maybe they just run up into the middle of it and
stab all the right people and all those secrets. That’s the thing is, a lot
of wheeling and dealing can be cut short by just
getting stabbed in the head. – There you go dude. – A lesson for all you guys at home. We end that episode with the party at Ostentatia Wallace’s house. The classic line from Aelwyn Abernant, “I came here to.” – I mean, one of the best lines in the whole show, if you ask me. – I like the kill hold
or whatever that is? – Oh, you ready to kill hold tonight? (Brennan laughing) Hell yeah I am! Oh God, that and “You’re a nasty little”, there’s so many, party fowl. Oh, the one rule? When somebody has to be
invisible at all times and if they get stabbed
they have to drink? (Lou kissing) It was like very cool. I feel like it’s one of, like, there are a lot, it was one of those very classic high school moments re-imagined in the Fantasy High setting. And I just wish we hadn’t
been fighting so much so I could have gotten my
first kiss or whatever. I guess I did get my first kiss. – [Brennan] You did! – I guess I was looking
for my first hookup. – [Brennan] Yeah, yeah. – As the imaginary 16 year old boy. (Brennan laughing) I was just, I was just dying. – That was such a funny choice for you to make Fabian into Aelwen. Was there ever a moment
where you were like, I think there is, or was it an immediate– – It was like, and this is, I can say this and not have it be weird, but it was a straight up like, this person reminds me
of my dad, I love my dad, I’m sexually attracted to this person. I’m not sexually attracted to my dad, but I’m sexually attracted to this person because of the qualities
they have like my dad. – Yeah, I have aspirational affections for my parent, and then here
is a person that embodies those aspirational
aspects and is also hot. – It’s like somebody who dates somebody who has like, looks like their mom, or has like qualities. It was very much like a, my knee-jerk reaction was this person reminds me a lot of a female Bill Seacaster,
I’m attracted to this. Not me, not me, him, is attracted to this. (Brennan laughing) And so I was, it was like, there was no question in my mind. – [Brennan] No question. – I was in love instantly. – You’re like, oh,
attractive, magic, elven Bill Seacaster, let’s make it happen. – Please. – Incredible.
– It was a great turn. – Speaking of the party at
Ostentatia Wallace’s house, Rick, this house set. – My God, dude! I was watching the episode
and having a flashback. Like you built some amazing
sets in your time Rick, but this one was a, I remember the pulling apart, I was like, yo! It was incredible. – Thank you. – Especially given the fact
that it was a magical combat, and I had someone with the blink spell, that allows you to move something like 10 or 15 feet in any direction. And all of a sudden they go like, “This in-house is unbelievably effective.” The idea of fighting a
wizard teleporting around in a teenage house party
is just such a rich and compelling idea, and when you made the set Rick, it was like unbelievable. And then we got, all you’re trying to do when you have a cast like the one we had for Fantasy High is be like, how can I give these people the most fodder for like incredible moves? And we got Gorgug tackling
the fire elemental into the beer pong table,
the backyard wrestling move. We got the swimming pool,
the motorcycle up the stairs. – [Rick] Oh yeah, that was awesome! – [Lou] Thanks Rick. – So this is awesome we have a chance to like get you in front of the camera. Talk about like, ’cause
this was our first season, now we’re all old hat at this, but when you were first setting down to create the battle sets for season one, what was doing this, not
this particular fight like, but for that whole
season, what were the big unexpected challenges
moving into doing this? And then specifically for this episode. – Sure. – When did it come together for you? – I mean, I will say even
now it’s sort of like, because of the stuff that you guys do, it’s so like, such a
mashup of weird things and it’s never very conventional as far as what kits and minis
and stuff are available. So it’s still always curve balls coming, but that season, this season, Fantasy High was, I don’t know. There’s a lot of modern kits out there, so it’s really just about sourcing, trying to figure out what’s available and how we can change it up and add to it and make it match the idea. The house set is a kit from
a company called Sally 4th. And so they actually
make a house like that, that you can buy per
floors, and so we got that and sort of changed it up a little bit. And we added some texture to it and put some details and stuff, and then the backyard stuff, a lot of that stuff is. (Rick laughing) Woohoo! – Rick Perry the God, thanks Thursatool. – Thursatool. – Thursatool, very correct. – Thank you. Yeah so a lot of that backyard stuff is things from model
railroad stuff, you know? Because people are decorating
their model train stuff, and then some things
were straight up customs like the beer pong is– – Yeah I was going to ask, can you buy? – No, that one was maybe the thing I’m most proud of, in a way, just because it’s so bizarre. But we worked with Adam Levine, who is the guy that
prints all your guys’– – [Lou] I’m sorry, did you just say you worked with Adam Levine? – [Brennan] The dude from
Maroon 5 is one of Rick’s– – Maroon 5? – Yeah he prints minis for us. – That’s unreal dude. – [Brennan] He’s passionate
about RPGing, man. – Yeah, he is, he likes Warhammer, no. Different Adam Levine. – Okay fine. – But he lives in North Hollywood and he prints stuff for us, so. But he also is able to make
some stuff himself in 3D, and so we worked with him to build that little beer pong table and he printed ’em up for us, and Shane, one of our
painters, painted them. But, yeah. – Incredible. – It’s a lot of fun. – Dude, yeah that house set was so, and I’m so glad we get
to use every level of it. The fight ended on the roof.
– I was gonna say! We do end up on the roof! – Yes, yes, yes. Man, some of those athletics rolls were brutal getting up on that thing. – Riz takes a full fall. – Takes a full fall, gets blasted with lightening a couple times. It’s a rough time for our boy Riz. So we want to turn it over to you guys. Get some questions, both
for our master set designer and mini designer Rick Perry, and also for Mr Seacaster himself. This first one’s from Inevitableruffian, “Question for Rick, how
did you get into D20? “Are you someone who
does props and miniatures “for shows and you’re
applying those skills “to tabletop miniatures,
or are you practiced “specifically in tabletop
miniatures and sets “and were searched for”, that’s all that fits in the box right now, that’s all I can read. – Your question’s too long! – Your question’s too long. “Sets or were you searched out for that?” Thank you Inevitableruffian. – Thanks for the question. I’ve been doing art department work for I think almost 15 years. This is the first show I’ve
ever done miniatures for. So, I worked with College
Humor on some sketches a little bit before this,
and then the first producer, Lu called me in because of that. – Me? – Lu Stinnette, Lucretia Stinnette. – Oh that’s right, sorry. You know a lot of people with names that are other people’s names, who would be unreal if
they were those people. – Just throwing stuff out there. Yeah, so I feel like maybe
I am kind of an expert on miniatures and tabletop stuff. But I played D&D before,
and IDM and so on, so this was a really exciting
project to get to work on. – Well I remember talking
to you originally, and the second you were like, I’m a gamer, I play with minis, even
though it hadn’t necessarily been something you had done as
a production designer before, you were very familiar with running games. And when we were talking about the design for battle sets, it was so
clear that you understood what they needed to be able to do, both for the camera as
a production designer, but even, I would say,
as significant as that, what they needed to be
able to do or the game. – [Rick] Sure. – How they needed to be engaging and fun and provide these opportunities. And truly so many Easter eggs and toys are buried into these
sets, it’s incredible. There are so many opportunities. The ladder that comes
loose in the Mithril fight, you know, all these amazing opportunities. – [Rick] Thank you. – Sometimes even one or two extra, like a vulture, that ends
up being so interesting, these guys can’t get over it! – That literally. Do I try and land next to the vulture, or close to the vulture? – I feel like no one gets gotten as bad by the vulture as Beardsley. Ally truly, you can look
back and see them full, even after the vulture has flown away, I’ve removed the vulture from the set, the vulture is not part of the– – [Rick] There’s no vulture. – There’s no vulture. – Well you have to
understand you had planted birds in the episode as being something– – The owls, right? – This was your fault, you don’t– – It’s my fault. – You said winged things, yeah and the both of you
were to blame for this. Don’t put this on these PCs alright? We were following the trail of breadcrumbs and I’ll tell ya, at the very end was the full loaf of
bread that was a vulture on top of a water tower, okay? I’ll defend Ally to the death, okay? (Brennan laughing) They were right to ask
questions of that vulture. – I guess I’m wrong, I guess I’m wrong. Soupcat asks for Rick, “Any dream idea for a set design? “Some crazy cool minis?” (Brennan gasping)
(Lou laughing) – I don’t know, always. This show basically is just crazy sets and minis I think. So stay tuned, we’re doing some exciting stuff right now. – We’re in the middle of
shooting season five right now. – [Lou] Oh, goddamn! – Where we do some stuff with the sets that are truly mind. One in particular I’m thinking of is like mind blowing, to me at least, of like a full chain of something you just haven’t seen in a
D&D actual play show before. Rick and I have also
talked because I think aesthetically, we’re very into the idea of like hot suns, hot guns,
space sci-fi stuff. And we have just shot about, just ideas, not even with the story in mind, but just what kind of battles could you do in a sci-fi outer-space kind of setting. – Yeah, concepts for ships, and battling on the surface of the ship or just weird planets, like
weird, you know I mean. – Right, things to do
with gravity, and scale and all the insane stuff you can do in terms of space battle
and space warfare. – [Rick] I got ideas for that. – Extremely dope stuff on the horizon. Cheiflamevis, thank you
Chieflamevis for the question. “For Lou and Rick,
who’s your favourite NPC “from both Fantasy High
and Unsleeping City?” Bearing in mind that we
are only at episode 108 for Unsleeping City, so spoilers ahoy. – 108 is the trip to Nod? – Sub plot. Yes, the trip to Nod. The subway battle and the trip to Nod. – Great. I mean mine are, I feel, mine are, Fantasy High I feel like is obvious, is Bill Seacaster, it’s my father. And I think our dynamic as well, playing with you, as me, as Bill was like, gave me the most satisfaction I think of. And it was just the funnest. You know the sea shanty and the, all those, the craziness
that was Bill Seacaster was just so fun to play. And then for Unsleeping City, I, Rick, do you have one in mind? I feel like I need a second. – I think I have two and they’re probably, it’s conventional, it’s
two that were mentioned on the last talk back thing. I think Gilear from Fantasy High. – Oh, of course! – I mean Seacaster is– – No but Gilear is– – Singular, but Gilear
is just that sweet spot of weirdo, you know, just
a really amazing character. And then for Unsleeping
City I think Wally maybe. – Wally is right up there, we have to have Wally and Gilear in the morning. We need a sports radio. “And back to Wally and
Gilear in the morning!” No, well I will say too,
playing those characters, Gilear is so fun to play. We talked a lot about
Gilear on the last thing, it’s like they’re so
joyful and brought so much joy to Emily and the other players. Bill, playing Bill was so much fun. And I think it came across
in the scenes I did as Bill that I was like, this is kind of my, DMs have their NPCs that are kind of like their PCs in a sense, where it’s like, oh this is the character that– – [Rick] It’s a proxy for you. – It’s a proxy or you, or like oh I’m playing this character, and I remember the idea
of playing a character that is fully on the alignment chart, I would say chaotic
evil, and loves his son more than anything in the world and it is a pure unadulterated love, was so much fun to play. And the whole thing of how insanely impulsive and violent he is. To me, the thing I like about pirates as a concept is the idea of, these are, it’s the chaos of no impulse control. Of like, the most swingy a mood can get. Of like, I’m just laughing
so much in this moment and then a moment later I’m
like, “I’ll have your throat!” You know, like. (Brennan yelling) This insane, like, “Oh God!” This person is truly as
tempestuous as the sea. In a moment they can go
from one thing to the other. And just playing, I think
the scene where Bill really locked it in for me
was after the Black Pit when you guys all go to the. ‘Cause he the scene with you where he, after school after the
attack, it’s like that. But that moment that I locked into Bill was when you were like, “Papa, don’t give drugs to my friends!” – [Lou] Yeah, don’t give
snuff to all my friends! – And he goes, and then he, for a second I was like, it was like the dad and the pirate captain perfectly interlocked and he just went, “When you have a guest in your home!” Like, made giving drugs to your friends part of his dad thing, of like this is how you show
hospitality to people. I was like ah, I am fully locked into this character now,
like I get this guy. – I remember my, I’m
going to go real deep-cut. I love, I mean don’t get me wrong I love Wally, but I will say, and I guess it’s also tied in just to the, my excitement at the
beginning of Unsleeping City. You, it’s truly the minorest of characters I don’t think we ever see again, but the, Pete’s landlord’s son? (Rick and Brennan laughing) I remember his name was
Lockshmee or something – Oh no his name was Yagdash. – Yagdash! I truly had a moment when
you were like Yagdash, your portrayal of Yagdash,
as like this person. ‘Cause I remember like, they’re such like, Pete was like, yo, lie for me Yagdash, and Yagdash was just like, no. It was, I remember being like, oh this is going to be
great, I like can’t wait. Yagdash is a big one. I truly, it took me a second to get there but then I was like, I
really loved Yagdash. – That whole sequence
is amazing, all that. – That’s the thing about
Unsleeping City too, that I think was really interesting. Unlike Fantasy High, in
Fantasy High we establish who these people’s families are and that’s the characters that you see. It’s like these are high school kids. When you’re in high school,
the people that you see, it’s the same rotating cast. And with Unsleeping City,
there’s a tremendous amount of like, hey, there’s,
you know, 8000000 people that live in this place, and you can go a month
without seeing somebody. You can go awhile without seeing somebody. So there’s a much broader
cast of characters that you see more infrequently, with who the heroes of
the Unsleeping City are. So like Yagdash, he shows
up in that first episode and he hasn’t shown up again. But just the idea, I remember him, this idea of kind of a chin-strap beard. I kind of see him in
like a velour jumpsuit. You know, like this guy, like an Eastern European, kind of like, is he a gangster? Maybe not, maybe he just wants to be. Maybe he hangs out at the same place where gangsters are and
he cashes in on that. And it’s this very funny
idea of this guy who’s like, “I thought you were drug dealer.” – Yes exactly! – About him is, the
moment where he can’t lie for Pete is not because he’s
trying to screw Pete over, it’s because he’s truly like, “What, I thought you were gangster!” – Yes, I got mad love for Yagdash. Truly though, my one qualm
with Unsleeping City? Not enough Yagdash. – [Rick] Pete’s doctor is great too. – Oh, Dr. Primjitzski, that’s right! Yes I love Lugash Primjitzski. Yeah he’s Dr. Lugash, who
Kingston Brown, of course, loves! He’s a great doctor! – Yeah, that’s right. – Cutestkitten2. “Bill Seacaster would 100% bribe colleges “to get Fabian into the best college.” Not even a question, just a factual– – Just a fact. We have him bribing in the show. – Cannon! – There’s a history of bribing. – Cannon. – That’s, of course, if he
was alive and not exploded. – Yep, there you go. Exactly. Appcarnest. Thank you Appcarnest for the question. “In terms of pacing the
story and ensuring hitting “plot points and whatnot,
what is the unwritten “agreement like between everyone? “How far off the rails are allowed?” Thank you for the question Appcarnest. So we have here Rick, who’s
a production designer, and Lou who’s one of our cast members, and there’s an interesting
balance that happens here, because in order for us to have the incredible immersive
sets that we have, Rick and I go to work the second the players have created their characters. So they create their characters,
that allows me to know what in the world I should flesh out and what I should kind of prepare. I don’t want to plot the season out, or put my things in place. In other words, I don’t think as a DM, this is my hot take, I don’t think as a DM you should have a plot before you know who your main characters are. That is something that is
totally uncontroversial to say about writing a novel,
but weirdly controversial when it comes to D&D, right? Where you’ll be like,
no I have an adventure and they’ll make their PCs and whatever, I’ll run them through whatever. But for me that’s problematic, right? Because I can’t include Bill Seacaster in a Fantasy High story
unless Fabian Seacaster is one of The Bad Kids. Why would Bill Seacaster be in Elmville unless his son was going to Aguefort? You know what I’m sayin’? So they make their characters and then right after that, me and Rick get together and we sit
down and start to talk about what the season is going to look like, what the characters can face, what kind of battles we want to do. And that’s an awesome back and forth that’s usually me beating out the story, while Rick is beating out like, here’s what we can make,
here’s cool mechanics, here’s what we can kind
of come together with, and we’ll come up with those battle sets. As we go through them,
we will sometimes find an order, and some seasons that order is completely set in stone. Other times there’s a little flex or wiggle room in terms
of what happens next. I have never had to keep… It’s a weird, it’s a weird thing. There’s a weird balance between
keeping things on the rails, and letting these guys
go wherever they want. Without patting myself
on the back too much, mostly I’ve been able to guess where the PCs are gonna wanna go. And that’s not to say that I’m psychic, but a lot of this can
just be done cleverly. I didn’t have to keep the
PCs on the rails too much in Fantasy High because
the story is a mystery. Does that make sense? Like the bread crumbs– – [Lou] Are you asking? (Brennan mumbling) – Get in the comments if
that doesn’t make sense. But there is an element of like these kids want to solve the mystery. I have these sets that
happen in a certain order. So do they have to stay on the rails? Partially. Do I want the PCs to have total freedom to do whatever they want to do? Absolutely. The spirit of D&D is not there if the PCs don’t have the freedom for their actions to matter. However, those things aren’t as mutually exclusive as they sound. Anticipating what the PCs are going to do. We can philosophically get into ideas about free will and what that means, but for the most part,
if you have been careful with what type of story you’re telling, you can give your PCs total freedom, and pretty correctly anticipate
what they’re gonna wanna do. Because with a mystery, they’re gonna go to the next place where the next clue is. And most of the battles in Fantasy High cleave to that, right? So, there’s a certain degree
of that in these campaigns of being able to have
our cake and eat it too, where we are able to keep the battle sets coming in the order
they’re supposed to come and the PCs are totally
afforded the freedom to choose where they’re gonna go. And it’s just on me to be clever enough to set up the highest reward for where the next battle
set is going to be. – Yeah, I mean, I’d agree. With regard to like, patting
you on the back more, not that you need it. But it is like, it speaks to
the strength of the narrative that I think the next best thing to do, the next obvious thing
to do is go to the place. And it’s not even like
raily, it just feels like, as a PC who’s in it, it just feels like the next logical move. It’s like, oh the information
we now have suggests that what we need is at the
Durinson Mythril Factory. And you make space for us to go like, we want to go stop at
our dad’s house first, then we want to go get milkshakes, then we’re going to go to
the Durinson Mythril Factory. It’s not that we are
railroaded into a like, well we got what we need, the next step is the Durinson Mythril Factory. It’s that, we just
understand that eventually we should go to that location. – Yeah, absolutely. I think there’s more overlap. – I think too, like any good DM, the battles and even the bad guys, they’re gonna fight and all these things are flexible until the
moment that they’re not. And so it allows you a little bit of, when you’re trying to figure out how to get them there or, you know, what the angle is that hooks them in, like usually there’s multiple pop vectors that like this location or this bad guy has multiple connections
to different players. So it seems to me as an
outside observer of that, those moments, that it allows you to flex and to find a really organic, and really intuitive way to pull them in to a location for a battle. I mean, when we’re
taping, I sit on the side. My work is mostly done and
I’m listening, you know? And it’s always amazing to me that like, I’m looking at the clock of
how much time has run by. I know that like you
know, in like ten minutes they’re supposed to be at
the Durinson Mythril Factory fighting this battle
’cause we spent a week making it or whatever, but like, they’re doing something
so completely different. I have no idea how he
is gonna get them there, and it’s always, I’m
just sitting there like freaking out like, “Oh my
God, what’s gonna happen?” You know, and every time it’s beautiful. – Aw shucks, that means the world to me. – But yeah, we’re also great PCs who when you’re like, you got invited to Ostentatia’s party, we don’t go, “Man, off.” Oh I’m sorry for cursing. But we’re not like man, I don’t need Ostentatia’s party, like we, I don’t know, no, we’re just like, I think we also are committed and invested in your story, which again,
patting you on the back, you’ve created a story in a
world we are fully invested in. But it’s like, yeah. – It’s like a dance or something. – Yeah, where it’s like, we also want to dance with you, and are excited with where you’re taking us. And I think that’s the
balance that we strike in the series that allows
us to do what we do, is that we are, you create worlds that we are invested
enough in that we’re like, we’d like to see. I mean don’t, we go to the hospital, and I believe in this, when
the role play episode– – The previous, yeah. – We had a disguise with a
fake pregnancy and again, Emily making out with an adult man. So like, don’t act like we don’t do what we want, all right? – You guys extremely do
what you want and in fact I can’t stop you. But you’re absolutely right,
there’s a dance there. Like you guys are not out to screw me, and that’s an important element. You guys are very game, and when I present an opportunity for you, you guys seize it. You are not antagonistic. And that’s something that I
think needs to happen in games. But I think the mutual trade there, the unspoken agreement
that you’re referring to in your great question, the
unspoken agreement is this. Your PCs, if they are
kind, as my six PCs are, will always take your
offers and run with them if, on the other side of the bargain, you as a DM never ever force your players into a situation where they feel like they are not playing their
character truthfully. So your job as a DM,
if you have some rails, if you’re running a module,
if you have prebuilt sets, if there’s certain things in mind, you can have some rails laid down. Your PCs, if they are
kind and good to you, will see those rails, acknowledge
them, and go for them. And your payment for that
is you have to return and say all of these rails
are always going to feel like the right choice for your characters. I know your characters well enough to know that this will feel like the most logical course of action for them. Great question, thank you for that. Thicketnymph, question for Lou, “Did you have any qualms
about saying you’d kill “Pete in front of Ally? “Their response seemed like they had “no idea you would say that.” – Oh, wow, jump into. I thought we were just
having fun in the fun zone. – [Brennan] In the Fantasy High zone! – In the Fantasy High fun zone. Look at this fun boy. There’s no weight of the
world, voice of the people on this young boy’s shoulders. Did I have a problem saying it? No. Straight up, no. Look, I have a problem, I was thinking about this
on the ride over here, I truly have a problem with
getting too deep into character. And that’s not a brag, I truly think it is to my emotional detriment. – It’s not a problem, it’s a solution. – No, it’s a problem, okay? – It’s not a problem, it’s great. – Truly like, I get mad at other PCs as a PC, but then I can’t distinguish it from the people that they are. So I’m just mad at, like
we stand up from the table, and I’m just mad at Emily ’cause she, because I’m mad at
Sophia, but it’s like all, it’s like too much. But truly in that moment
I was so comfortable and confident in saying that. I love Ally to death but, I mean, I don’t feel like, I’ll defend Kingston’s actions
forever but it was like, in that moment for Kingston. I mean again, I haven’t
watched the episode recently so my wording, I’m not 100%
sure of the wording but, I mean I’m 90% sure
Kingston’s wording is that, if it come to it, he
has no problem doing it. – I would love to jump in
here to talk about this. We are fully going off of Fantasy High, we’re talking about Unsleeping City now. – [Lou] Fully! I would love to talk
about this for a second because I have loved, in the
Discord it has been bumpin’. On Reddit, bumpin’. People are talking
about Pete and Kingston, the two Voxes of New York City. (Lou laughing) What I will say is this, everyone’s right. Everyone is right. And if you fall on the
Kingston side of things, or you fall on the Pete
side of things, look. It’s even in the logo for
this season of Unsleeping City that this season deals with
a lot of themes of binaries, and of opposition, and of
having two sides to a thing. If you’re in that world,
and the only information you have is Kingston’s information, you would be wild not
to side with Kingston. If were in that world, and all you had was Pete’s information, you would be wild not to side with Pete. And that’s the point, right? Is that neither of them sees
the other person’s life, or their story, and
each of them is bringing their own internal biases
to what’s happened. And I will say this, I love
the people who have gone hard in one direction or another for them. The philosophy major
in me of course wanted to present a thing of like,
who’s right and wrong here? This is complicated, right? Look at how, look at how
intense this is, right? What I will say is interesting, and I’m going to put some folks that are fans of the show on blast, which maybe I shouldn’t do, but I’m gonna put you on blast. – Watch out, dude, watch out. – With only love, with only love for you, I have not, anyone who has
been definitively angry at either Pete or Kingston,
like anyone who has been like “Kingston or Pete is trash, “they were totally in the wrong”, has not been able, in my humble opinion, to honestly represent the point
of view of either character. The people that are truly
like “Pete is terrible”, have to frame Pete as being worse than Pete actually was, right? And be like, “Pete killed people”. Pete didn’t kill people. Pete allowed through recklessness and not paying attention,
allowed bad things to happen, right, or enabled bad things to happen. Pete didn’t kill anybody, so that’s that. And on the flip side,
people that were like, Kingston threatened to kill Pete, Kingston did not threaten to kill Pete. Kingston said if it comes to it, we have to put Pete down. So all of that is to say that, it’s very interesting to me that nobody who is hard on either side has been able to support their point with the facts exactly as they were, and that, to me, is beautiful. – The one thing I will say,
the wording is very strong. I remember I think, afterward
walking away from the table being like, “Put him down”, like what? That was little hard, that was emotional. But does that happen in the same episode, that doesn’t happen in the same episode where I see Liz, does it?
– It does. – Well okay. – That’s why! I mean look, the thing is,
if we’re going to extend human understanding to these characters, Pete deserves all the human understanding in the world for having such a, he’s like, homeless and uncared for, and has had everyone turn on him. Pete is like a deeply unloved
and un-nurtured character, and there’s so much about him that people have not done right by him. And on the flip side you look at Kingston, Kingston’s coming to that meeting from literally being hated. So like, when you look at Kingston say, “I choose New York 10 out of 10 times” the ferocity of that
statement is a direct line from his interaction with
Liz earlier in that day. It’d be cool if people weren’t
bags of emotion based on, not only what people had
said to him earlier that day, but also like if they were hungry or not, or had slept or not. We like to think of ourselves
as perfectly rational beings, but all that emotional, all
those moments that come up and we’d go, “This is an
indelible mark on your character” are affected by things
as simple and mundane as a conversation you
had earlier that day, and that’s how I feel about that. – Wow, didn’t expect to get into it. I am thinking like, oh
this is a whole thing that’s been going on online that like, I haven’t really involved myself in, but have thought a lot about. – I love it. To me it’s like, that’s what, to have a conversation with that many lucid, brilliant people, all the people that have written about it
online, you’re all brilliant. I love everyone’s takes. Even the hot takes I
disagree with, I’m like, God this is gorgeous and that’s the point. I mean like, who would want to do a story about New York City and magic without having an idea of, New York is, the whole concept of a place as enormous and multifaceted with so
many different communities and you go like, what
is all of this together? Can this possibly come
together and be one thing? And if you don’t have
an element of your story talking about how different people can be in terms of who they
are and how they feel, then you’re not really telling
a story about New York. Nerdydragoncat! (Brennan laughing) That’s a great name to go to after what we were just talking about. “Which of The Bad Kids UC”, UC for Unsleeping City. I believe has had the
moniker “Dream Team”. We’re calling them The Dream Team. – Really? – Is the name of the Unsleeping City. – That’s pretty cool. – Very cool. – I’m gonna put my little thumbprint and say to whatever authority I can claim over these settings
after they escape from my little mind into the world, cannon, we’re going to call, The Dream Team is the official name. – The Dream Team and The Bad Kids. – You heard it here. – Was the official names.
– And The Bad Kids. Love that.
– “Which of The Bad Kids slash “Dream Team do you think
you’d get along with “best if you were placed
in the Fantasy High “magical NYC setting?” – Great question. – This is hard for you
’cause you play somebody! – I play somebody, so if I, I mean I feel like I’m gonna take them, I actually don’t think I
would get along with Fabian. I understand Fabian and I get like, that’s why I can play, like I get him, but I don’t think I like him. I think, especially the
front kind of interaction. I actually think I would
really get along with The Ball, which is why I think Fabian gets along with The Ball in his own twisted way. I actually really, I think Riz
and I would be good friends. Like, Riz would be the nerdiest of the, like would be too nerdy. I would be like a bridge,
I would be more social and be like, I would hang out with Riz, but then also go be social, but then come home to
Riz, and me and Riz would, you know, go on late
night adventures alone, instead of going to parties and stuff. – Yeah! (laughing) – Riz feels like a lot
of my high school time of just like, me and my friends, parties are weird but friendship is dope. – Parties are weird, friendship is dope! Lou slash Riz 2019. – That’s my vibe. And then in the Unsleeping City, which one of The Dream Team? I… That’s harder. I mean, I do think it, I guess it’s, I guess it’s gangster. Like I really actually
would enjoy hanging out with an older black
man who knew everything about the city and would just take me to cool things and
introduce me to cool people. – Yeah. – So, okay I cheated. I would love to hang out with Kingston. (Brennan laughing) – I think for me, from Fantasy High, from The Bad Kids would be
Kristen Applebees or Gorgug, because, I don’t know, I
just feel like those are actually people that I was
friends with in high school, and would be in art class
with and I don’t know– – You have the shirt on right now. – Oh, we gotta show the merch! We gotta show the merch, we have the Harvest Camp shirt on.
– Right now! Of course. – And then Unsleeping City,
maybe Pete, I don’t know. Pete just seems like
somebody that would be you know at an art opening
or something, you know? – I love it. Yeah, Pete and Kingston do
share knowing people as a trait. He’d be like, “Oh this person can hang.” I love it. Man. I feel like for me, for The Bad Kids, I gotta go either Kristen or Adaine, I think are my two that I
would want to hang with. It feels like, to get into
headcannon space with it, I don’t know if Adaine
would like me as a person, but if she did it would be
cool to nerd out about magic. Also in this world, if
I’m hanging out with them it means magic is real, which means the first thing I’m doing is going and picking up a book of wizardry, because you gotta. – [Lou] You gotta. – You gotta, I’m gonna fly! I’m gonna fly. But also Kristen would be incredible because I would love nothing more than to sit down with
and talk with Kristen about philosophy, and talk through faith and the understanding of the divine, and that would be a dream come true, just to kick it with
Kristen, do some great. It might actually be Kristen, to just do some dope social work, go out and do some
volunteering on the town, and then talk about why
things are the way they are, and how the cosmos works. – [Lou] Boo, boo! – Hooray! Hooray for me!
– Boo! – Hooray for me and Kristen! – Come hang out with me
and Riz on a roof somewhere just hangin’ out for too many hours. – Honestly, late night coffee with Riz at the diner would be tight.
– The more I think about it the more I actually think me and Riz would be like, best friends. Like I actually think me and
Riz would hang out a lot. (Brennan laughing) – Perfect. And for the Unsleeping
City, I do actually think it has to be Kingston
Brown for me as well. (Lou yelling) – Kingston, Kingston’s cool man. Very, very cool. – If I was living back in New York and I could go once a week and play chess in the park with Kingston, and just ask him about life
and how to be a good person. Everyone, I think everyone wants a Kingston Brown figure in their life who is the, you know like, that calm, centered voice of warm empathic authority. You know what I mean? There’s so many problems with authority in the world at large, but the idea of someone who brings an authority born of empathy and perception. That’s what I love about wisdom as one of the mental stats in D&D, is that wisdom is keyed
into insight and perception, which suggests that high wisdom characters are characters who collect and receive. Their brilliance fundamentally comes from how much they are able to gather
from the world around them, which I think is a really beautiful part of clerics and druids within that setting. Libbon! Thanks Libbon. “Brennan, would you
ever consider releasing “a Fantasy High source book?” – The people want to know. – Libbon, I would love to release a Fantasy High source book. And as soon as we get me cloned, or I get the stopwatch
from this last battle where I can stop time and
have extra hours in the day, you’re gettin’ that source book. But until then, I should say, we actually, there are ongoing
conversations about getting a Fantasy High source book out here and making that happen,
it’s just a matter of time. And right now, there’s, we’re having so much fun making the actual show, that a lot of our creativity
effort is going into that. But don’t you worry, there
is a very real future, I would say very real
not-so-distant future, where you could be holding Elmville in the palm of your hand. – [Lou] Wow. – [Rick] Cool. – The Darklantern, thanks Darklatern. “For Fantasy High, what was
the PC death contingency?” You saw it. You saw the PC death contingency. – [Rick] That is true. – It’s so crazy. I mean now being, what five seasons in? We’re filming the fifth series. To think that the series
started with two PC deaths. Which I had never experienced
in my own D&D experience. Like I had never imagined
that death could, like I don’t know, it was so crazy. – I don’t know how to communicate how much was riding, that day in my life. I shot Tide CEO earlier that day. – No way!
– Wow. – That is a hundred percent crazy. – That’s crazy. – I shot Tide CEO that morning, and then went to the studio to run the first two episodes of Fantasy High. We shot two episodes a day, and it was episode one,
“The Beginning Begins” and then it was “Clash of the Corn Cuties” which is the name of the episode, even though the correct name for those monsters is corn gremlins. I don’t know how to describe it. So Tide CEO hadn’t come
out, and it was like, okay! – What was the date? – This was February of 2018? Yeah it was February 2018 and I was like, “Wow, College Humor has
taken a huge risk on me “letting me do a D&D show. “Hope this goes good. “Oops, a third of our
characters are dead!” (Lou clapping) Maybe you should have run fifth edition, I don’t know, once or twice before doing an actual play show, my guy! Why? So the contingency was nothing. There was no contingency. In my head at the table,
I was basically like, “Two of them are dead,
and if you resurrect them, “all of the stakes of
death fly out of this, “and everyone knows that you’re a fraud.” (Lou laughing) – [Rick] It’s pretty high stakes. – That’s intense. I mean, that’s a lot to put on you. – Cameras are rolling. If you don’t bring them back, there are no secondary characters created, and any tenor of levity
and fun that exists will be gone for the following
15 episodes of this show, because every episode will reference the two friends they made on
their first day that died. So all that fun like Breakfast
Club vibe will be gone. And I just had to improvise
a way to make death matter, and to not replace a third. If it had, I have said this before, but if it had just been
one, they’d be dead. If it had just been
either Kristen or Gorgug, they would have been dead and
we would have figured it out. With two I went, how
do we possibly advance and have this all stay the same? And I, and someone went
to look for Aguefort and I went, here’s my
shot, here’s my shot. And then Mr Gibbons and Aguefort, and I narrated the whole, just improvised the whole thing with the death and the phoenix egg and all that. And then a life for a life, eh Mr Gibbons? Blam, Blam. And the second I did
that and saw your guys’ reaction at the table,
I went, “Thank God.” I went like, I got out of that trap. – Yeah, I don’t know. I mean all of my, most of my all time D&D moments are from this show. But that was like, I mean again that was the first day shooting this new thing, that was already crazy enough. I’m like, my D&D experience
before D20 is not vast. So it was not like I showed
up to this and was like, oh I know what D&D can be. I only had very small understanding of what D&D’s allowed to be, and it was, like I truly remember when you were like, “He points the gun at
Mr Gibbons and shoots, “then points it at himself, blam!” It was like, it was like unimaginable. I like didn’t, ’cause I also think I had a hard time being like, you just killed the principal. You killed the guy who
made the speech earlier. It was truly, I mean, the reverse is like unimaginable for you, but what you did was truly in the realm of the impossible for what I thought. ‘Cause it was also like,
oh this had been a fun, cute John Hughes esque story
literally up until that moment. Up until that moment,
we were like jumping, tripping on tables, being
awkward, punching corn, and then a murder-suicide happens, and it’s like, okay! This is a different, this is different. – But that’s the thing is I knew that anything less than that, I knew that I needed that reaction
that you just described, I needed that or nothing
else was going to cut it. I needed something that was
such a strong cuppa tea, no pun intended with
Arthur Aguefort’s tea, but I needed something that
was such a strong cup of tea, that it would make you forget that two people had
just come back to life. Like I needed those two
PCs to come back to life with no sense of relief. That’s literally what I was trying to do, was to have them come
back, and have everybody instead of going like, “Oh,
our problems are solved, “they’re back from the dead!” To have two characters resurrected and have everybody go, “We’re screwed.” – Yeah.
– Yeah. – That’s, and it’s like, your
relationship specifically, which also is one of the
undeniably most funny. You’re losing your mind. I, whenever I have re-watched that clip, it has brought more joy to my life than I can possibly describe. You’re fully losing, you’re
like what is happening? What did you do?
– It’s crazy! It’s a crazy thing. I can’t put into words how my brain, how much everything was
just kind of flipping, nothing was making sense anymore because of how cute and fun
all of the rest of it had been. It was like when we brained Doreen, I was like, okay that was kind of weird. But when he pulls out a
gun and shoots somebody in the back of the head
and then shoots himself, it was so much. – Yeah I mean, it’s like. It blew me away too. And still that episode, I
always really have to watch at least to the end of the second episode because you will be 100% hooked. – Hooked, hooked my man! – Totally. – Like a damn fish! – But Aguefort is like, was like one of the pillars of the whole storyline and you just took it out,
you know what I mean? It was just a piece of immovable story that obviously was not set up in any way, it was so powerful and awesome. – How are you railroading us if you could just do that, you know? – Well that’s the thing, it’s like, in terms of advice to DMs, it’s just like, your PCs are such a force
for chaos in the world, as are the dice, as we
discovered in that first battle. If you have any hesitation or preciousness over the pieces you do have
on your side of the board, like, I have to contend with you guys who, I’m one person and you’re six people. I’m outgunned. And then the dice are
not on anybody’s side. So I am flanked on both sides by people that are not trying to help me. The PCs are trying to help me in the sense of also wanting a good story to happen, but there’s six of you and
you have your own agenda. And the dice are nobody’s friend. So if you are sitting there further hamstringing yourself by being like, “I can’t kill the prince.” No, anyone can go. Anything can happen. With your own sandbox, man
you’d better be ruthless. I’m so glad we get to talk about that. Sephihowa, hey Sephi! How’s it goin’? “For Rick, were the corn
gremlins, dot dot dot, “meant to be that cute?” (Rick laughing) – Thanks for the question. (Brennan laughing) Yeah, I mean, I don’t know. We kinda went back and forth with them. I think that we were, there was a couple iterations that they were maybe a little cuter, and a little meaner, and it sort of, somehow,
I think it was just like, it was our first thing that we were sort of creating like that,
it was a custom 3D print. And somehow we ended up there, and they’re amazing but
they are kind of cute. – They do have a, they
have a true cartoony like. (Lou yelling) That’s a– – In hindsight, it was the butts. They do have cute little butts on them. – [Lou] They have butts? – They have little butts,
they just kinda have a little bulby kinda corn
butt, and they’re very cute. They’re just very cute
little corn gremlins. Yeah, when we first made them it was also like a way into the silliness of the setting, of having a fight, you know, in the, for the first fight of the thing be like, you know, “This ain’t your daddy’s D&D.” You know what like to have it be like, oh we’re going to come up with a custom monster, our new mini. The ooze, everything else and
have this be really special. – I remember too, like that,
like from the beginning, a lot of times when we start these seasons of early conversations it’s like, usually there’s definitely
some specific sets and monsters and things that
Brennan already comes with, you know, and other things
develop after character creation, and through conversations and stuff. But like that was one
that from like day one, was always one of the things, was these corn goblins, or corn gremlins. And I remember showing you
a lot of different minis, like, is it an imp? You know is it a lemure, like a thing? Trying to figure out what it was, and that you had a really
strong idea of that, and I mean it came out that way. It’s a very special mini. – Can I ask about one thing? And I guess it’s another thing
that talking about it now, I really am interested in
where it came from, Rick. Can we talk about the butt hole? Can we talk about, did
you make the butt hole? Was the butt hole already there? ‘Cause that thing, I’m
now thinking about it, and like, you know, I was so taken aback and so excited by everything
that was happening, it has never crossed my mind to realize that you are the man who was like, “Put a butt hole that Riz can climb up.” – There’s like three butt
holes on that episode. – Yeah, and those were active choices. – I don’t remember how they came to be, that was sculpted by Shane Brockoway and I think it was painted by
Nate, our lead mini painter. But I have some pictures
of the sculpting thing I can post later or
whatever, but I remember, I think we were talking
about how it’s generating these things, they’re coming out of it. I can’t remember where the
butt hole thing came from, but I remember definitely
giving some specific design input to the
sculptures, being like, that needs a little more this. (everyone laughing) – It was life changing
to see those butt holes. And to see that there were multiple and scattered over the mini, of like this thing can poop from wherever. – [Lou] Dude, gremlins coming
out all sorts of holes. – All sorts of holes. This one’s from Netflixandexistenchill. Hey Netflixandexistenchill! – [Rick] Great name. – [Lou] What’s up dude? – Thanks for hanging out. “How’s Fabian reacting
to the Gilear shenanigans “from the live show?” – Oh, Netflixandexistenchill! I’ll tell you, I literally thought about this this morning with kind of the upcoming Twitch stream. And I’m gonna kick his ass! I’m gonna kick Gilear’s ass, like no joke. I’m going to fight this adult man, and I’m going to make you roleplay him. I don’t care! Fabian’s about ready to get expelled. For those of you who don’t know what’s happening or
what’s being talked about, check out and subscribe to Dropout, check out the livestream
of the Austin show. Gilear gets up to some real, you know, like he really
steps out of line, as far as I’m concerned. And I’m gonna, we will have words. We will have words. – It was so wonderful, ’cause we had the show at the bell house which was so fun, and
we established Gilear riding on the back of
the hangman’s motorcycle. So we started off with
this post season one cannon of him dating, seriously
dating your mother Hilariel, and how much Fabian hates that. – It’s so annoying! Brennan has tried to explain
to me the logic of it many times, and I will
not hear it, I just won’t. It goes in one ear and out the other, and it just all is craziness. – That’s the thing, that’s the nice thing about being a, being the Dungeon Master of an actual-place show is
that my ships are cannon. (laughing) No, it’s very fun to look
at Hilariel and Gilear, and to me the logic of it, and actually, people are so welcome to disagree, and I love all the other ships. – [Lou] Please everyone, maybe if we all join forces and disagree. – I know this is a–
– Start a petition. – Exactly! Somebody get on! – [Brennan] There’s a very strong, there’s this great artist, Jules, who’s very strong in the
Sklonda, Gilear ship. – Oh!
– Also two, a third of our PCs are in
the Sklonda, Gilear ship, which are Murph and Emily–
– That was in this episode as well at the–
– Yeah, it was– – Bastion market dinner.
– Yeah, the whole thing of, “This yogurt tastes like potatoes.” (Lou laughing) Gilear. But the thing is this. There’s something about
Hilariel being with. No one is more human than Bill Seacaster in terms of like a short lived, reckless, wild, ambitious, cunning. To me if you’re an elf, and
you’re going to date a human, and you’re going to marry a human, and have a child with that
human, it’s Bill Seacaster. And after Bill Seacaster, I feel like there’s
something about being like, okay, I’m just going to be with this elf. I will never be with
anyone who challenges me as much as Bill challenged
me, so I’m gonna be with– – Something different than that. – With, yeah, human Yoplait container, or elven Yoplait container,
Gilear Faeth, right? And the thought too that
she is in the process of sobering up after a 15-16 year bender, and Gilear would be a better partner for someone who’s trying
to clean their act up. That’s my own internal logic, you’re welcome to disagree with that, but that’s how I reason
that out in my head. But to the original question of, so in the Austin show, it was really fun to have Gilear be disguised as Fabian, ’cause Lou, sadly, was bein’
a big-time Hollywood guy and could not join us for that one, but the fact that I got to
play Gilear playing Fabian, and Fabian was also, quote unquote there, at least in appearance,
was deeply satisfying for all of us who missed Lou. We wished Lou had been in Austin with us. – As an audience member watching that, it was very funny to watch. To watch Brennan do me, doing
my character as his character. But Fabian is furious and will not stand. – Mriley16, thanks Mriley! “Lou, were you always gonna play Fabian, “or did you workshop any
other character ideas?” – Oh! That’s interesting, I was not always going to play Fabian. Kingston was like, Kingston was more like, I think I walked in and was like, “Brennan I want to play Kingston.” And Brennan was like,
“Kingston sounds great.” And then I made up more characters so that it didn’t look like me and Brennan had made a backroom deal in which we were like, “Kingston’s in!” For this one, I remember I
came with a couple ideas, I remember I pitched half
elven, like, prissy jock. Or like half elven jock
is I think what I pitched. And then we kind of like,
’cause we were really trying to get all of the,
all the classic carry, like high school stereotypes. And I remember we didn’t have a jock, and so I was like I’ll be the jock. And I don’t know where we got it, but it was like why not
have him be the rich boy, so you know, then we got
this prissy rich boy jock. But I remember I also pitched like, I think I remember I
pitched like some kind of stoner character, and
maybe some kind of like grease monkey, like mechanic like thunder, T-bird kind of character. But I think the way things
shook out, like Fabian– – [Brennan] I remember
the gear-head character– – I think I like– – And I remember knowing
about Johnny Spells already and being like, and I remember, also I just wanted someone
in a letter jacket. So Fabian was kind of, for
me of the ones you pitched, it was like, because for me it was going to be the stoner or Fabian, and when no one else had a
pitch for a jock character, I was like, let’s lock in Fabian. – You did a great job
of not making it clear. I felt like I could have been any, I guess you were open to me if I really wanted something, but I
was like very flexible, and as soon as we went with Fabian, it was just so fluid and easy. It just like, the voice
came very naturally and just the whole thing, the vibe. – Yeah, I also would say too that, from doing the show, it has made me, in my home games, want to make PC creation more collaborative. Because I think that in the show we made it more collaborative, because there was this idea of like, oh, this is not solely
for our own enjoyment. We need to have fun for
the show to be good, but also we want to make
sure the show is good just in general, for viewers
and people that want to watch. And I realized that like it is okay to just have everyone make their character blind from each other, and
totally isolated in their own, and just show up and you get who you get. But I felt like there’s so much strength from the idea of like
thinking of the party as more than the sum of its parts, and looking at who’s gonna be in the game, and trying to create or
define something around that. I think sitting down as
a group and being like, hey let’s all come up
with a few ideas for PCs, and then kind of, not have our heart set on just one of them, but kind of see what kind of
constellation of characters we can create that might
be deeply gratifying. Like do we sense a theme here? Is it possible that like, oh, if everybody takes their second or third character, we actually create something that feels cohesive, and like we’re all working to purpose. That can be really
gratifying and it’s something that I wouldn’t have discovered as a DM but for working on this show,
which is very, very cool. Kitkatgal37, thanks Kitkatgal! By the way, thanks to all
our friends in the chat. – [Rick] Thank you. – You guys rule, we really
appreciate you coming and hanging out and talking
about the show with us. – [Lou] Hell yeah. – Kitkatgal37 asks, “Rick, what
types of set or prop designs “have you attempted that
ultimately didn’t work out?” What have we had to scrap, if anything? – I mean, I think from the first season, there wasn’t really anything,
just in the sense that like, I think originally we were
talking about having extra sets and backup stuff, and scatter terrain, and options because we really didn’t know how exactly it would work out, you know? So I think we talked about, did we talk about, we
talked about a diner? – Diner originally was
going to be in Fantasy High. – [Rick] Yeah there was
gonna be a diner set. – Every season has had concepts that get scrapped, for sure.
– I think the, yeah, for the chase, the car chase, we were gonna originally build the– – [Brennan] The gas station. – Yeah, we had that in
mind, but then it was like, oh you know what, the
thing happens on the road, and then the gas station’s
not there anymore so let’s just go to the road, you know? So stuff like that I think but– – Yeah, we had that. We scrapped the goblin
warrens idea from Bloodkeep. From Unsleeping City. The thing with New York
that was interesting was, there’s so many iconic
locations within New York. – Yeah, it was actually
about choosing which one. – Choosing which one was
really heartbreaking, ’cause you’re like oh, we have like 20 battle ideas going
into Unsleeping City. I wonder if I, like a little season five spoilery stuff. – Don’t do it. I mean, should I step out of the room? – Oh yeah. – No, I would just say that in season five we’ve actually, because
of scheduling stuff, we actually have had more
freedom in terms of battle sets. Like I’ve had some more
cards up my sleeve, which has been very, very exciting. So that’s been really, really fun. – I think too, just one thing for me whenever I’m thinking
about these sets it’s like, I have to think about
the playability, right? Like people’s movement
rates and ranges of spells and obstacles and you
know, tax opportunity, and just all this extra stuff I’m trying to build into
it with a concept with you. But then also I’m thinking
about camera angles, there’s restrictions about
how the walls can be, and we know that some
elements are going to be removed for shooting and some are gonna be on the table during shooting. So there’s always stuff like that, that creates a really
interesting design challenge, you know, and it’s a lot
of fun to figure out, so. But spaces like the Times
Square is tricky, right? Because it’s like, Times
Square is basically an empty space that is defined
by these massive buildings. So, when you have a
board, how do you do that? You know just, stuff like that
is interesting to figure out. – Yeah, having to like redo
Times Square to be like, ’cause how big to scale
would Times Square really be? Another little not
spoiler thing, but like, for season five we actually have a combat that is the first combat
in Dimension 20 history that Rick and I wanted to
play-test with non-cast members. Go do a private play-test
for it, just because it was ambitious in a way that
we hadn’t done before, and wanted to make sure
that it could work. So there’s a lot of thought
and work that goes into it. Speaking of, we’ve got
another great Rick question. KethCL, thanks KethCL. “Rick, what have you used
most for set scratch builds, “foamcore, plasticore, or Styrofoam.” Okay KethCL, you’re throwing down some jargon.
– Honestly just DM him, all right? I’m here! No, I’m intrigued.
– Yeah, I’m here! – I’m intrigued as well. Also this is like the exact opportunity to ask this because
truly there is no person that understands tabletop set building better than Rick Perry. It is not a stretch for me to say that these are the best sets
anywhere in actual play. – Oh, thank you very much. – Except for maybe that
one dude in New Zealand, but he just does the one thing. You know that one dude. Yeah, that guy, he’s pretty incredible. – Yeah the Lord of the Rings stuff? – Yeah, or the one that
he can like flip it. That’s pretty cool, but
that’s very specific. My man Rick does it all! New York, fantasy. – I want to take this
opportunity actually to say, it’s not just me, and I
want to give shout out to five people that are
key parts of the team. Sabrina Wichner is our lead model maker, and she’s responsible for
getting all the sets done. Shane Brockway is our lead minis painter, so he does most of the painting
but he also is responsible for making sure everything is
painted, and it looks good. Nate Viarelle is our senior minis painter, he does all the PCs,
all the high end stuff. Helen Bell is our art coordinator who makes sure everything happens. She does all the spell cards,
and the sheets and stuff. And then also Maxy Bebber is on set during all the pickups,
all the close up shots. So there’s a whole bunch of us
that do it, it’s not just me. But we use all that stuff. We don’t use plasticard so much, or plasticore, but we use
styrene, we use MDF kits. A lot of times it’s like finding a kit and thinking like okay, I can take this and cut it apart and combine
it with this other thing. Scratch-build stuff, Sabrina’s amazing, she can build anything from styrene. The minis are, it’s just sort of like whatever gets the job done. Sometimes we buy stuff off the shelf, we 3D print stuff, we do whatever. – Hell yeah. I’ve been, by the way, to Rick’s shop. It’s incredible, the work going on there is like so deeply inspiring and touching. And I don’t know about you, Lou, but like any time one
of these sets comes out, I’m just filled with the most, I get the coolest toys in the world. – Oh boy, it was, I
mean, I’ll never forget like the first time we saw our minis. It was, I don’t like, I don’t know what I, it’s like weird to think back. Now we’re really deep into
it, but I’m trying to. I don’t think I read enough emails about what this show was going to be. I don’t think I completely
understood the breakdown of role play combat, role play combat. And I still remember
coming out that first time, and seeing this amazing board
that you guys had built, and being like, “This is amazing.” I mean, I just remember like, first it was just the miniature Elmville. Then it was this board, and
it was like, what’s happening? Then you gave me this
little thing that was a bunch of information I typed into gmail, that it had become a person. And it was just like, I don’t know, again it’s that level of immersion. And then we just got deeper and deeper, at least for the first season, leading up to when you pull out the fuckin’, oh sorry, when you pull out the Goldenhoard mini, and
it was just like, bam! And it’s only in watching Bloodkeep, you just continue to climb dude. It’s crazy. – Man, thank you so much. – I mean that thing you say about like the fact that you guys can make anything, it’s like, I truly believe that. I truly believe that anything that Brennan and us PCs think
up, will find its way. I mean, come on, I picked up a motorcycle, and two episodes later there’s two minis. The motorcycle mini, and
me on a motorcycle mini. – I want to throw out, by
the way, that came from Rick. I was too shy at that
point, again the show hadn’t come out or
anything, I didn’t know, I was like, this is my first time in a position kind of running a show, I didn’t think to ask that, Rick came up to me and was like, “So what do you think? “Motorcycle by itself, and
then one with Fabian on it?” And I was like, “We can do that?” And Rick’s like, “Yeah, I ordered it. “We’re done, we’re good.” – Yeah! – And I was like, this is incredible! Incredible. And speaking about on
the rails, I had no idea Fabian was going to jack that motorcycle. – True. – And that’s the kind of
thing you need to honor. That’s the balance of on
the rails off the rails, of like, okay we have certain battles that we need to get to, but we can absolutely set my man up with a sick, demonic motorcycle. – [Lou] Or not, dude. – Also a character that
as much as Rick was like, “I’m going to get that mini.” I also had to improvise the
whole character of that. Like it’s such an incredible collaboration when you know that everybody on the squad is just going at 100%
capacity and that’s the dream. I mean, projects like this don’t– – Yeah, thank you guys
so much for the love. I mean all of us in the shop,
we love working on the show, it’s a huge opportunity for us, and we are getting to
collaborate with you guys, which is awesome, you guys are amazing. I come back after taping at the shop and they’re working on
the next week’s thing, and I’m just telling them
everything that happened, and everybody’s with bated
breath like, “Oh really?” You know, ’cause also we make stuff, and we don’t always know, like I didn’t know what
Adaine was all about. I kinda like had an idea of what she was kinda gonna look like
and we made this thing, like I had no idea, you know? So there’s an aspect of it that just doesn’t really come alive
until you guys do your thing. – It’s so incredible. – I was gonna say too that,
earlier we were talking about the railroading
thing, and I think you touched on it again is that, something I respect about you as a DM, and I’ve learned from you is
that you really never say no in a way, which is almost like a, maybe it’s an improv thing or whatever, but it’s like people, PCs come to you or they’re, you know, and
you were like, okay, yeah, and even if it’s something
that’s going to take the story way off the rails, or way
in some other direction, you always say yes, you always validate it and take it and fold it
in and enrich the gumbo that you guys are all making together. It’s really inspiring. – That means the world to me man. Yeah, it’s like you have to find a way to, there is that juggling of like, the PCs are not here to
listen to your story, they’re here to tell their story. And when you have people as talented as the six people that are the PCs, the main cast of Dimension 20, it’s like the best thing you
can do is get out of their way. And all I’m trying, the
only thing I’m trying to do, is adjudicate their desires
with a material world in the narrative that is
challenging and presents obstacles, because otherwise their
achievements don’t matter. Achievements only matter
in the face of adversity. So it’s this weird thing where
I’m always trying to balance, I wanna make your dreams come true, and I want them to come true in a way that is challenging and hard, because they won’t matter otherwise. And just finding a way to balance that, it’s almost always, it’s like, you know you have to get to a yes. As a DM, I have to get to a place where I can say yes to the players. It’s about figuring out how to say yes so that they feel they’ve earned something and not been given something. Hustlerbojenkins! (laughing) It’s a great name, Hustlerbojenkins. Thanks Hustlerbojenkins,
your name made me smile. “Brennan, super quick and easy.” Thanks for telling me how your
question’s gonna be up top. “I know this is silly but I must know, “are you my freakin’ dad?” I’m going to see how much time we have left for this
question, hold on one second. – Roll an insight check. – Can you go ahead and
roll an insight check? Charlie in the chat? Charlie, can you let me know what the insight check is
that Hustlerbojenkins rolls? Everyone else in the chat
quiet down for a second, ’cause I want to make
sure that we don’t miss Hustlerbojenkins’ roll. So Hustler, you roll an insight check and then Charlie, if you can put that insight check
up in the chat window. That’s gonna be great and
we’ll take care of it that way. – [Lou] There’s tension. – There’s tension here. – There’s a lot of people– – Are you serious? Did you roll a nat 20? – Did you actually roll a nat 20? – Did you roll a nat 20? – Okay. (Rick laughing) – Hustler. Hustlerbojenkins. I have bad news, and I have good news. The good news is that the
lesson of Fantasy High, and I think the lesson
of maybe D&D in general, is that family is not about the people you are blood related to. Family is about the
family that you choose. It’s about the family that
you find, and that finds you. And in a very real sense, we are all passengers on spaceship Earth, and I firmly believe from
the bottom of my heart that we are all family to one another. So wherever you are, and
to everyone watching this, you’re part of my family and
I hope you feel the same way about me and also about
all of us and each other. The bad news, Hustlerbojenkins, is that you’re going to have to change the name Hustlerbojenkins, because your real name
is Hustler Mulligan. I’m your dad. I’m your biological dad. (Rick laughing) – Wow. This is a big episode of this talk back. Is this what happened last week? – Not even a little bit. – Did you find out you
had a son last week? (Brennan laughing) Did you find out you had a son? – “Sephihowles, Brennan is our dad!” Kids, I couldn’t be more proud of you all. Your dad gives a big thumbs up. That’s all for this
Fantasy High, Extra Credit. A huge, enormous thank you
to Rick Perry and Lou Wilson. – [Lou] Happy to do it. Thank you so much for having, good to hang out with you Rick. – Tune in next week for another talk back. You also got the regular
Droppie streams on the channel, Dropout Live is poppin’ with activity. Make sure to spread the good
word, tell your friends, go over to YouTube and check
out Dimension 20 on YouTube, and subscribe to Dropout. We’ve got a bunch more
in store for you guys, thanks for tuning in.

27 thoughts on “Recapping Fantasy High with Rick and Lou

  • so early, still unclear on the twitch thingI i am a (paid) subscriber on twitch. does that mean i will get the live events?

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  • 44:03 Brennan's answer here is almost exactly how I would have answered that question.

    So at this point the only Fantasy High session that isn't on this channel is that live show from Austin, right?

  • Having a set in space where up and down mean different things and having a tiny magnet in each move spot and a magnet in the base of the minis so they can move around the ship hull and certain parts of the interior? Oof! That would make for an epic battle O_O

  • Timestamps! Spoilers for Unsleeping City marked.

    0:00 to 18:04 sets

    > Spoiler 18:04 to 19:49 for Unsleeping City both on YouTube and still on Dropout (let me know when this point should be edited)

    19:49 to 22:04 Bill Seacaster

    > Spoiler 22:04 to 24:41 for episode 1 of Unsleeping City

    24:42 to 25:03 more Bill Seacaster
    25:03 to 34:04 designing sets and keeping on rails vs free will

    > MAJOR Spoiler 34:05 to 41:00 for anybody not up to date on Unsleeping City on Dropout (let me know when this point should be edited)

    Minor Spoiler 41:01 to 46:57 but just vague episode 1 Sleeping City character stuff

    46:57 to 48:00 Fantasy High source book?
    48:00 to 56:31 Fantasy High PC death contingency at first battle
    56:32 to corn cuties and the corn oozs

    > Spoiler 59:54 to 1:01:10 for the 2 live Fantasy High shows especially the RTX show that is currently NOT on YouTube without subscription (let me know when this point should be edited)

    > Spoiler 1:01:10 to 1:03:29 for the first live Fantasy High episode which was filmed at Bellhouse and is now available on YouTube

    > Spoiler 1:03:29 to 1:04:23 for live Fantasy High at RTX currently not available without subscription (let me know when this point should be edited)

    1:04:23 to 1:07:58 Chosing the PC Lou played, the imput Brennan had, and how players sharing more than one PC creation with the DM before the story was made created a stronger story

    > Very minor spoiler 1:07:58 to 1:11:27 scrapped set designs and designed challenges

    1:11:27 to 1:15:57 set materials used and reactions to minis and board
    1:15:57 to 1:16:30 dealing with Fabian getting the Hangman
    1:16:30 to 1:18:56 Rick being grateful and what it's like creating stuff for the show and praising the DM
    1:18:56 to end fan wants DM to be his dad

  • I can't even express in words how impressed I am to learn that Aguefort's resurrection murder-suicide was entirely improvised.
    That was the moment that made the series for me.

  • Your Gibbons/Eggfort Life for a Life thing was the most genius DM move I have ever seen. And I have been playing this game in various forms since the 1980s. Bravo, sir.

  • Hey I am currently very confused about the twitch. I’ve already watch the video but I still don’t understand. If anyone would answer my question it would be a big help.

    1. Are they going to continue fantasy high on twitch?
    2. If we don’t watch it live can we still watch it on twitch or do I have to sign up for dropout?

    Thank you for anyone who answers my question.

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