Rupert Read, "Everyone knows our democracy is broken…" – Politics Live – Extinction Rebellion



we're going to move on and we're going to talk about the climate change protests I'm sure it hasn't escaped anybody's notice the protest from extinction rebellion that have taken place over the last week or so we're going to welcome in Rupert Reed who is from the campaign group while he's taking his seat we'll show you some of the pictures from some of the demonstrations and people in various parts of London they're on their way at the moment I think to Parliament Square but Nadine whether you oppose or support these protests you have to agree that it has moved the issue right up the political agenda I mean here and here they are in the Natural History Museum we just saw pictures there do you agree well it certainly has taken up the interest of the media and has cut through as I would have put it when I was still doesn't it well I don't believe it's the right thing to do though I think the right thing to do by the way which also cuts through is what David Attenborough has been doing and I think we cannot be complacent about this yes we've cut down emissions by 23 percent since 2010 42% since 1998 was the economy's doubled in size you know we're doing it a lot here including the target that by 2050 we will use all greenhouse emissions by 80% yes we mustn't be complacent yes it's right that people should protest but you know sort of gluing yourself onto people's homes or Jeremy's I'm fair I think it's wrong actually and and you know I would be the first to speak up against that and actually disrupting people's livelihoods I had you know a cab driver this morning saying to me this is just unfair there are people who need to get to work whilst you know some of these people involved are sort of you know jetting off to LA or somewhere else on business class yet they think it's a good idea to stop people you know earning their lives that's not a good place to be in my book Rupert firstly let me take up the thing about jetting off to LA we just had Easter weekend let's take a good cue from a very famous person in history and let them without sin cast the first stone extinction rebellion is not about blaming individuals for what they do is about us all working together to turn this around and that's why we want to meet with the government and said he can't to discuss with them and why we want to have citizens assemblies to sort out how we get to the future the carbon-free future that we desperately need to get to let me also take up the minister's point about the alleged reduction of 42 percent in emissions since 1990 it's just lying of numbers is it because there is a clear if you look at the grass there has been a decline in carbon hydrogen over the last 10 years if I could explain if you include sea travel if you include air travel if you include embodied emissions that means the emissions and the products that we buy from abroad our emissions have barely fallen since 1990 so can we please nail this myth once and for all that Britain is a leader on this on climate we're just not in terms of the facts Nadine respectfully I obviously disagree with you I think we are happily we per capita South by do better than g7 right level emissions filling up that my point being is you can protest you can ask us to do more you can push us harder nothing wrong with that David Attenborough's doing it in the right way actually disrupting people's travel causing the chaos outside this building here is wrong in my view because people need to get to work they want to earn living they want to be able to make sure they get to pick up their children from school whatever they need to do and that's this just frustrates people and actually yeah there are other countries that also need to do more but I don't see exclusion rebellion actually organizing in China royal so Edward you're quite mistaken I think you doing the distinction bellum is a worldwide movement we're an international movement well Minister I put it to you that you know full well that I wouldn't be on this program if it weren't for these protests and I also put it to you that William Hague wouldn't have put a major column in The Telegraph today saying the Conservatives have to wake up on climate if we hadn't been doing these protests is the disruption justified absolutely because the disruption we're going to get them disruptions that isn't even the word the disruption we're gonna get if we allow climate chaos to let rip is is a million times greater than this we are facing the potential collapse of our very civilization we may be able to show the pictures or protesters on their way to Parliament Square going past Buckingham Palace will you be joining them Jenny well I'd be joining them I mean it's alright for me living in Darlington to look at what's been happening in London and the disruption and to admire it and to also find some of it really quite a fun some of it looks like and it looks like it's been quite good-natured the police seem to have handled it brilliantly I haven't been disrupted in neither of my constituents so I do understand that there is frustration but I think that this has been born out of a Billy lack of belief in that the government's ever going to do anything on this agenda that's sufficient and it's right so do you agree with rupesh on the carbon emissions have they been going down or have they been going up well we have clear commitments about getting them to zero by 2015 Rudo we'd like them to be faster than that I no doubt and we could have a discussion about what additional steps we make to make that how we invite you to that describe will you come on lovely come to that discussion that's wonderful you talking to meet and collaborate but rupa to explain to our viewers and to Nadeem and jenny what needs to be done to hit your target of zero carbon emissions by 2025 rather than 2050 what specific things would have to change in our lives an awful lot of things first artists of course we wouldn't frack we wouldn't build a new runway at Heathrow we wouldn't build a chest those are things that are not happening would you change about our lives that exists currently the huge investment in renewables now we need to start phasing out rapidly fossil fuel power stations we need to start phasing out fossil fuel cars but let me also say this those things are happening aren't they not really fast enough fine would that be radical enough to bring zero carbon emissions by 2025 probably not so that's why what we're calling for is a citizen's assembly we want the people with expert aid to be brought in on this because it's patent that our representative democracy has failed on this issue everyone knows that our democracy is broken and there's no way that it alone can rise to the challenge of this so we're saying bring the people in advised by the best experts so that we can decide together how to get to carbon 0 by 2025 alright I'm going to ask the people that salmon Olivia the people what they think what they think about the ideas of citizens assemblies but you say you want to bring everybody together that we're all in this together to quote another politician but you will end up to some extent clobbering people on lower incomes who do rely on their cars which may be older diesel cars nurses on late shifts Amazon delivery drivers in order to achieve your aim you accept that firstly let's remember that about a third of the population has no access to a car and those are mostly poor people in terms of the poor who are reliant on their cars obviously what would need to be happy happening would be some kind of redistribution to make it possible for them to go along with the changes in policy that would be needed but the crucial thing is what we need to do is to put in the other things that would make it possible for people to give up their cars so better public transport better better cycling let's go far faster on this look to the continent for advice on how to do it is it achievable well from what I've read and I don't pretend to be a climate change expert but 2025 if from whatever that would involve some almost eradicating air travel completely completely ending the production of me I mean that would massively disrupt the whole of the UK economy and would surely get a huge massive inflation it has a massive reduction in meat actually that could be enormously beneficial to the UK economy for starters also it could make it far easier for us to feed ourselves it's absolutely outrageous that at this point in history we in Britain can nowhere near feed ourselves in if we lower on the food chain that would be possible this may be really crucial in years to come as we're gonna face crop failures with climate chaos but we saw we saw what happened in France when Emmanuel macron tried to introduce green taxes too quickly the people revolted against him and now he's had to take a step back don't you think you're just moving a little too fast and that can sample the environment which is of course incredibly valid and I admire you all but it does need to be balanced against people's livelihoods in people's lives and and as the Dean said the disruption on the streets normal people just wanting to get to work don't you think I'm gonna completely alienate them and then take a huge step back like that once mistake was to target the poor with his carbon taxes we think it's much more likely that a citizen's assembly would decide primarily to target the rich and businesses in terms of disruption let me also add that actually many Londoners and many tourists have hugely enjoyed this last week for example I've spent time on Waterloo Bridge it was absolutely beautiful with all our plants all over it tourists were loving it commuters were loving it cycling through water and here's the crucial point it did you all know air pollution has gone down in London since our protests begun Wow is it yeah how much I'm not sure about how much exactly 10 to 20 percent I believe the experts have you today but the Easter holidays Rupert and not many people would have been travelling in to work – in the same numbers as they would be doing is I'm countering the lie that's put out by the right-wing press that this has led to more idling traffic and air pollution going out simply not true Sam well the politicians take this on so the whole question about this debate is about the amount of disruption that people can tolerate in their in their daily lives and in micro that's being played out over the last few days with some people taking a view that we shouldn't have the disruption that we've seen at but but more generally the question is can we make the necessary choices that will involve disruption in people's lives in order to get the change that campaigners and others say is necessary and if you take a step back and look at British politics at the moment it seems that in some fields particularly like brexit particularly those perhaps pushing for a No Deal breaks it they are prepared to countenance quite a high degree of disruption for certain political ends but the question is whether or not there's a group in British politics that have taken the amount of an own the amount of disruption that would be needed for the necessary green changes that that you need to do in order to in order to hit some of the more ambitious targets at the moment it looks to me like neither the Labour Party nor the Conservative Party have particularly jumped on this as an issue have been focused on it and focusing in on it and are prepared to push things that look like they may disrupt the people whose votes they are going to seek in the near future in the way that they have done for other policies that Jenny I don't know if that's entirely fair because I think you have seen a growing in it growth and interest in environmental issues despite the fact that we've all been totally preoccupied with brexit for the last three years but I mean even if you're right so I think that's a change of signature labour policy in a party that is fundamentally a bit split between Mentalist and trade unionists who sometimes could pull in slightly different directions in that party when it comes to what to do on the environment banned fracking I mean just as an example you know that's something that wasn't uncontroversial within the labour movement for the reasons that you've alluded to but that was a decision that was taken because we thought it was justified but I do think I mean even if you if I did accept what you've said I think that has now changed and you're seeing you know particularly the younger people but not just younger people standing up and saying actually we want a party to be part of that champions these issues and environmental fairness and justice and making sure that we have this at the core of everything we do not as a sort of separate policy area I think that's something that the Labour Party wants to take on would you be prepared to tell your constituents they couldn't go on holiday I don't think that's what anyone's arguing well you might want it but if you but that is what you're saying if you really want you don't want people to travel by plane do you we want a massive reduction in air travel that's going to be essential if a travel carries on going up so we are without a pedal but that doesn't mean you don't take holidays it's perfectly possible I've done it myself last year for example take wonderful holidays in Europe and even beyond by training and this country too I think I think I've changed is this conversation where we have a commitment for 2050 you want it to be a lot lot quicker there is a reality test as well about whether or not you can come up with ideas that would have the desired impact on you know limiting climate change but also would be acceptable and tolerable to my constituents who do understand climate change they're not relaxed about it they want to do their bit but there is there's a conversation that somehow not been able to be had so far where we land on those things that are deliverable supportable by the public and we can actually get on and make those changes that we need to so to some extent Jenny's right so far the public have taken these things on board but to go further to reach the sort of targets that Rupert is talked about even if it isn't 2025 you would have to do some radical things to people's lives are you prepared to do that okay Sam set both major parties an interesting challenge so I'm going to say are you really committed this gentle you know when you get Jeremy Corbyn saying he wants to reopen coal mines it's very difficult it was his pitch during the first leadership whether he said he said there may be a stick there may be a situation you know what that happened he is not advocating no the second this is a very important point to Sam's point is we because he's challenging both of us and part of the issue that we have are you prepared wrecks it dominates so much of the headlines that when you talk about the Energy Act when you talk about you know making sure that we get all greenhouse gas down by 80% by 2050 when we talk about our 52 billion pound investment in renewables right doesn't cut through because the nation thinks that all we're doing is talking about brexit and indulging wonderfully it's arranged right why why worker you you've arranged that well done Rupert but but Greta timbered the young activist from Sweden Theresa May is not meeting her the other party leaders I believe are why not well you can imagine the premises diary is pretty busy at the moment but if you wanted to have a PR wouldn't you look at look at what we've done I've just been talking about the 52 billion pound investment in renewables the Energy Act all these things I think give us a global leadership role in this look at the the work that amber Rudd did in Paris on the climate change agreement to make sure that actually we led the way there but it's not cutting through because it brexit dominates and breaks it on one side what about the big guzzlers if you like all the big countries that are MIT into the environment far more than we do like America for example absolutely bill but voters in this country don't vote for politicians in other countries the question remains pertinent for the main political parties where for instance is a Treasury funded scrappage scheme if you believe that reducing the amount of emissions from diesel cars particularly is an urgent priority it's been talked about it's never been delivered I think that there are a number of measures that you have held back from doing partly because of cost grounds partly because of fear of disruption and partly because of a sort of political timidity due to the fact that other things are dominated and if you're gonna have a little bit of you know ability to disrupt people's lives this isn't this isn't the area that you're that you're choosing to prioritize I think there's a political choice to make this not your focus other than a few plastic bottles and replayed trying to replace those and that's more symbolism than I think that the left fundamental changes structure come on I mean it was taken to court not that long ago over air quality and levels of air pollution in London and people actually quite rightly uh constantly pushing us further liam hague is calling for a whole step change in conservative seriousness on this and that's what we want to see we want to see all parties put this up the agenda and that's what seems to be possible now with us with Greta with with David Attenborough things are coming together let's really make it happen we mean it we want to talk with everyone we want to make this happen all together we're not about cars don't disrupt people's lives when they're trying to get to work we wouldn't have got to this point if you hadn't have done so and you know that and to a full-scale negotiation with this and a citizen's assembly we will potentially end this rebellion Nodine well I think you're making a terrible error and you lose just given up well disrupting people's lives are you going to take this disruption further because we've got this tweet here from the royal household the visit will take place talking of course about President Trump from Monday the 3rd of June to Wednesday the 5th of June this year President Trump and mrs. Trump previously joined the Queen for tea at Windsor council in July 2018 find out more about state visits this is the full works for President Trump what would you be doing well I think you can take for granted will be a protest against that but in a certain sense in this country President Trump is the least of our problems we need to tackle the soft climate denial that there's permeated our whole society until very recently I mean the lack of serious attention to this as an issue which is the defining issue of our times this is the issue on which our children will judge us and if we don't get it right we will be judged so yes you can bet your bottom dollar that unless the government negotiates with it with us in earnest unless we see serious progress towards a citizen's assembly to sort all this out we will carry on Rupert thank you very much for coming in

20 thoughts on “Rupert Read, "Everyone knows our democracy is broken…" – Politics Live – Extinction Rebellion

  • "I don't think it's the RIGHT thing to do." It doesn't matter how it's done as long as it's effective and we get the desired response from governments and MPs. Look at the BIG PICTURE for goodness sake! Think about what it means that people have resorted to doing this: No one feels safe anymore. Did you know it's a human right to feel safe within their environment?

  • massive reduction in air travel duh…….yes or were going wipe out humanity and take entire ecosystems with us.

  • How exactly do you include air travel? Which country where the airplane is either landing or taking off accounts for the CO2 of said airplane?

  • This is not a rebellion, this is war. Kudos to Extinction Rebellion for their efforts, commitment, and moral consciousness , that is blatantly nonexistent in the minds of our politicians and globalist CEO's. Thank-you, I will be following you on social media. Cheers.

  • disruption is wrong he said, but that is how change is made and certainly when it is important that we need to disrupt our own life and make a change. we need to live differently.

    or else we want to make a change in emission but don't want to change anything in our own life. can not be done.

  • Extinction Rebellion are potentially preparing the public to be more accepting than the French have been about the necessary changes to legislation that will enable more rapid change to reduce and eventually eliminate fossil fuel consumption.

  • The 3 people on the left have missed the point completely, you can not hide from the facts, the scientists have settled thefacts

  • Is it feasible: answer NO. why: because as a species where to stupid. Plastic this will poison us before any climate change effect.

  • Thanks for all the great comments! Check out my YouTube channel for talks about the climate and ecological crises, and interviews that I have been doing about the vitally important Extinction Rebellion protests.

  • The case for rebellion has been made by this Conservative government, and nowhere more strongly than in their response to Grenfell; They called a public inquiry because that is the most successful Establishment ploy for stalling prosecution and kicking the can down the road until media attention wanders off to new interests. Meanwhile traumatised survivors remain without a home in one of the wealthiest boroughs on Earth. So how else should ordinary people respond to psychopathic cynicism in regard of the truly existential threat of climate change? Write yet another letter to our MP?

  • This argument needed well known and good climate change experts to say who is telling the truth and who isnt accurate

  • Getting them down to 0 by 2050 isnt good enough! We need the worlds governments to agree bindingly that they have to do whatever possible to stay below 1.5 degrees. This includes loaning the poorer countries and helping them reduce carbon emissions, aswell as carbon negative technology being used

  • Talk to the governments where rainforests dissapear rapidly. The cutting must stop immediately!
    The compagnies that pollute the most need to be talked to.
    I believe in positive, peaceful protesting.

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