The Nondual Trap Workshop at SAND 2018 with Jac O’ Keeffe. Part 4 (with subtitles)

– Can you drop any preference for the non-dual state over the dual? All right, all right. We’ve got a few nods. Nope.
(audience laughter) Love a bit of honesty, yeah. Cause it’s kind of ‘sold’, you know. That non-duality is
bliss and peace and calm, and nothing matters and everything’s fine. So I want you to see through it, that these are just two
lenses of perception that are available to me. But as long as there’s a preference for one over the other you’re forever going to be caught in the
polarity between the two. You will always be in the ‘either or’ and you won’t be in the ‘I can abide and totally have the
dualistic role play’. My humanity is not going to be
denied, my divinity is here. My humanity is played
through my personality. There is no clash. There is no preference. And so the unified field brings in both but as long as you’re running a preference you will be stuck in the
polarity between the two; one is bad and one is good. And you will never be able
to abide in the divine. You won’t. So we’ve set up a few non dual traps, huh? See if you can drop the preference. Your evolution will still continue. Just drop the preference. Because as long as you have a preference you have a polarity and you’re going to stay jumping between the two. We’re looking for a wider lens that can do the narrower functioning and you can stay in the wider one. Clear? – [Audience Member] Yeah. – Sorta. (laughs) All right. Ooh there’s a magnet, that’s cool! (audience laughing) I’ve never seen a duster
with a magnet before. – [Audience Member] Can I
ask you a quick question? – Sure. – [Audience Member] When you say open to where you
don’t have a preference from the dual versus the non dual. Can you hedge it by
saying embrace anonymity but still recognize that
you do enjoy the non dual? – Embrace the anonymity? – [Audience Member] Meaning
you’re okay with either. – Is that an honest, or a conceptual ‘you’re okay with either’? – [Audience Member] Well I’m not sure that I’m in the non dual sufficiently, that would be one little remark back. What was your question again? – So you were saying… – [Audience Member] Well
you can have anonymity, isn’t that a beautiful term of being open and I mean it’s a concept I
know somewhat that experience. Isn’t, can’t, I mean, maybe I’m hedging but what about that? Being, having anonymity means you’re not attached to either but it doesn’t mean you can’t slightly prefer one over the other. You know, this is cooler, I can have both. (audience laughter) I guess I’m breaking down
the preference for it. – Yeah, you are. (laughs) So you want a little bit of a preference. (audience laughter over response) Yeah you’re being honest, you’re recognizing that
there is a preference. Can you hold the idea that, that it would be okay, maybe, sometime, to not have a preference? – [Audience Member] Sure. – Okay, I’m happy with that. – [Audience Member] Okay. – If there’s a willingness
to let it come in then there’s no rigidity. – [Audience Member] Yeah, there’s an internal acknowledgement and groaning that you don’t have a choice anyway. – Woo, we hear a non dual
concept thrown right in now. In a dualistic (inaudible). – [Audience Member] Ah, yeah. – Yeah yeah, you see, you see? Yeah yeah, it’s funny
isn’t it how it sneaks in? Joyce, I’m not done here but, yeah. – [Joyce] Yeah but I’m sure it would be very rare for humans to have a preference for non duality. We say we want, especially here, we want non duality, but we want it in our dual way of feeling better about death. – That’s right, yeah. – [Joyce] Is what it is.
– Yeah. – [Joyce] So I say I want a preference for non duality, but I want to feel good in Joyce. – Yeah, yeah. – [Joyce] That’s not my
issue of being too (mumbles). – Yeah. – [Audience Member] Got
an interesting story, that shows something about preference. I had an intense vertigo,
a couple years ago, and I decided the best way to deal with it is learn to dance. And my dance partner would still lead in all these couple dance, but vertigo was such that I was
discombobulated all the time so what I did was I
allowed my partner to lead, and I followed. And I said at some point when
this vertigo is dealt with I’m gonna have to do the
prerogative and be a leader. What was so fascinating
was that I got to be in that passive receiving role and then switch over to the active, allow her to do the choreography. And then I realized, it’s kind of fun when you’re
couple dancing when you switch and the partner can lead and I follow or when I follow when they lead. And that was one of the
most incredible experiences. The vertigo was kind of a
strange kind of blessing. So there’s a preference in terms of two sides of that equation. – Yeah, to be the same, both. And sure, from the dualistic perspective you’re going to say of course
I don’t want to suffer, of course I want the non dual. And over the non dual you’re going to say eh, it’s going to play the
way it’s going to play. – But suffering is a sacred wound, it allows you to be more sensitive to vibing in a non dual
state, because there you’re– – Sure, you can justify it, I mean we can say it’s beautiful but it’s also crap too sometimes. You know, it’s all in there, isn’t it. – I had an experience as a small child having extreme headaches and I didn’t like taking
the medication they gave me. So what I discovered was if
I just didn’t fight the pain and just went with it,
kind of flow with it, then what happened was it
wasn’t suffering anymore, it wasn’t pain anymore. – It’s not suffering anymore.
– It’s just a sensation. – Yeah, the resistance to
pain creates more pain. – And so, it changed. The suffering didn’t
become suffering anymore, it was just matter of fact, it was neutralized in
terms of my response. – Sure, sure, sure. In a way, it’s a trick question, because ultimately what I’m trying to do is invite you to the lens of perception of where the polarity of both, I’m saying can you come deeper
than the polarity of both, right, so I’m trying to open
the door deeper than both, right, that’s really my
agenda here right now. So we’ve got the self who
thinks it’s doing something within the broader compass of knowing that actually that’s
just a role that’s played and it’s included within
this loving open space where this is as good as it gets. As long as there is a
preference for one or the other there would be a magnetism
towards the dualistic because the preference would
already exist in the dual. But marketing being what it is, we sell the non dual. Just be wise to it. Don’t get hooked in
there, needing to be free. You know, needing to,
oh, yeah, I’ve bought it, as soon as I’m awake…
as soon as I’m awake… Just don’t buy it, don’t buy
it, stay really really present. If you buy into that, you’re fattening the me myself I and you’re keeping the dynamic between the good bad polarity, you’re keeping the little I invested. And the polarity between the two, you’ll bounce between
the two all the time. If there’s genuinely a seeing through of how the mind wants one
to be better than the other, if you can see through that, how your mind wants one to
be better than the other, okay, okay, now you’re not playing tennis between the dual and the non dual. And we can talk about going deeper. So you’ve got to find the place of where, yeah, I see through that
idea that it’s better to be awake than to be asleep. I see through that idea. That’s the opening I want
to show you right now. You see? Because when you’re in pain
or when you’re in storyland, sure, and when you’re doing
your seeking thing, sure, it’s gonna be running. But I want you to find the place of where you can see through that. Make sense? – [Audience Member] See through what? – See through the
marketing that we believe that the non dual is better than the dual. I’ll be better off when…
it would be great if I… It’s like, ugh, it keeps the two, it keeps you within the
parameters of the two. And it’s been everywhere,
it’s not even Western, it’s in India, it’s
like all consciousness, oh, you know, the end
game, and it’s like jesus, would you stop selling it
like it’s a frigging massage that’s gonna make you feel
better for half an hour, do you know? (audience laughter) So you’ve got to see through it, it’s like yeah, I have
that perception within me, and this is for my mind
to access what I knew before I started to believe in my stories. All right, that’s all it is. And my mind can really,
really want ‘this’ over ‘that’. And I see through that. I see through that. I have the capabilities of both. Yeah, all right, now we’re getting a bit
of distance from both. I’d like you to be out of
the polarity between the two, the either or. So what we’re doing is looking at what sets non duality apart from duality, how one is better than the other, how one seems to be, oh, I’m in the dual, I’m in the non dual, oh,
yeah, let’s mix up the laws, not respect either lense of perception and use the concepts of
one to deny the other. It’s like come on, come on, come on. What we need is a smooth transition so that you live in your divinity and you can function in your personal. Clean, you see? You’re living in your divinity, you’re living in your essence. That’s what’s going on,
but you can play the role. And you don’t need to justify it, you don’t even need to
use non dual language, it doesn’t matter a crap what
anybody thinks you’re doing. You just honor your dualistic personal, the natural laws of that perception. Honor the laws there. You know? Something was written recently
by a teacher I really like. And he was falling into this, and I could just see what was happening, I was like, oh god there it is. And he was talking about the relationship, he was using guru and student and he had a graph of the guru and student and let’s move to a dynamic of where the guru is in the circle and so everybody is equally
connecting with everybody else. And so to go from this
graph to this graph, his article was about the guru comes down as an equal player and facilitates the growth of everybody and brings everybody
into unity consciousness and together they share
where they are one. And if there’s an authentic guru, they bring that oneness,
consciousness to the group. Honor the fact that there is going to be a power differential,
honor the fact that people are going to kind of
freaked if you are denying the role that you have
because you’re teaching. Honor the boundaries that
exist, honor the humanity, honor the natural laws at the same time. Keep the teachings the teachings and honor the code of
being a decent human being. I just see that a lot recently. It’s coming to my mind a lot, as I’m sure it’s always been there. But it has caused this huge
inaccessibility to the non dual. It’s simpler than what you imagine, it’s simpler, it’s simpler, it’s the room breathing you
that unity consciousness as long as you are not the subject, you’re out of the dual, you’re out of it. No fireworks, no bells and whistles. You’re out of it. And in that moment, that’s
as good as it gets. So I want to reframe it where those avoidances and
misunderstandings don’t happen. So that the organic flow
of embodiment happens. So if I go with me being the
narrow one, I’m the subject, and the wider lens of
perception that includes that, which is like everything is connected is kind of the easiest way, I suppose. – [Camera Man] Is there
a darker color marker? – There is a load of
them; I can play. Oh, I can make it bigger, too, can’t I? Narrow part of the funnel,
getting wider and wider. Is that more visible? – [Camera Man] Yes. – Thanks. I want to demistify the non dual. Everything is connected,
that’s unity consciousness. That’s your essence, that’s the divinity. Really, that’s the non dual, you know. So it’s unity, oneness, being. All right. A lens of perception, guess what, just another
lens of perception, that’s all. – [Audience Member] Would
you put a line through, connecting, even? – All that is? – [Audience Member] Because
connected is a concept. – It is, but it’s a very, it’s a very accessible
way to find the non dual. I want to take it off its pedestal as being something special. So that’s why I picked that right now, because as long as you
see, oh my god, yeah, it’s all one big movement.. and that’s easy enough for our human brains. rather than it’s infinite peace, it’s beingness, I want to get really practical. So yeah, I could. All is. That would do it too. So this is included within this. I’m putting pure consciousness here because that’s the one
thing that everything is. It’s all connected, well if it’s all connected,
what’s the common connector, (thank you) Pure consciousness. That’s what we call it in spirituality. We could use essence,
love, we can use other things. As long as the word pure is
in front if it, you’re good. (audience laughter) Because ‘pure’ is just one thing. It doesn’t leave space for other. Pure beauty, pure love,
pure divinity, pure clarity. Pure…you know, it works
eh? ..the word pure. Yes? – [Audience Member] If we do the work that you’re suggesting where we are able to look upon different states as lenses of perception
and we can live from our essence, what happens when we die, how does that change our karmic
path of rebirth and wherever our consciousness takes us? – As long as there is a pattern
of this lens of perception eclipsing this one – desire will do it – I want steak for dinner,
I want it and that’s it. And if you’re running desire and you’re following that action, the subject has to be
there, there has to be a me when there’s desire. There has to be. And desire so strong that
it will eclipse all of this. The frequency that creates that desire, the frequency that can eclipse this and have that reality, that subjective dualistic reality running, that frequency is going to
want resolution somewhere. And that’s the darn thing
that’s going to continue on after the body dies. That’s the thing that’s gotta go somewhere to find resolution, to expand again. Because the contraction
is too of the world. It’s learned. It comes
from pain and suffering and believing, thought,
and comes from ego. And it’s seeking, it will
always seek resolution. It’ll try to keep itself alive because it doesn’t believe
that actually letting go… It was born out of
experience, out of thought, and it’s got nothing else
going on and it can be let go. And if it’s not let go at
death, if there are still desires there, they’re going to go on. That’s what’s going to make
another incarnation happen. So it’s the’Tibetan Book of the Dead’ approach? – I haven’t read that, I had
it on my shelf for ten years and I thought, darn it, I’ll give it away. So I don’t know, it’s
just that I’ve seen this in my own work, I’ve seen it. And working with dead people and dying, some people dying, but actually
mostly with dead people, coming back and it’s like,
shoot, what’s going on? Here come the desires, bom bom bom bom bom, causing this coagulation
of the energy mass, whereas let it dissipate, like
sparks coming up from a fire. A spark goes up and it’s gone. Be like that so you can just dissipate. There’s no story, nothing to cling to. And that’s the end of the line. Until consciousness
eventually recycles again. But not in that solid form. That story is done. Once the me no longer
eclipses the non dual, then you’re done. – [Audience Member] Jac. Once
you were saying all that, but also it’s not so clean where we think
we are this one body that
goes into the next body but that it blends in one mess
and this energy just– – Yeah, it’s energy. – [Audience Member] So
it’s really not incarnation as in the religious interpretations.. – Yeah, it’s not as clean
as what we’d like to think. That one individual continues on. A coagulation of energy will
seek resolution anywhere. Anyhow. – [Audience Member] It’s
not personal at all. – It’s not personal at all. It might fragment, it might
pop right into somebody else who is actually alive, it might split up and go
into different people. Very rarely, I don’t even
imagine how it could happen, that an entire lump of
something could incarnate again. But seemingly the Dalai Lama does that. It’s kinda rare though. It’s kinda rare. Hi, do you want to come in. (mumbled response) Sure, okay, sure. Did I leave something hanging,
are we okay on those points? Yeah, all right. I want you to find pure.. either pure beauty or pure
love inside you right now. Dial in. Not a concept, dial in. Pure beauty or pure love.
Decide on one. Find it, feel it. If you can’t, raise your hand. For you, find purity. Purity. Clean purity. Clean, like when you get up just before dawn. You know, that still, pure, clean.. before something has cranked up. You know as the dawn
is beginning to break and there’s only nature. That taste of ah, nothing is… nothing is clashing with anything else. You know that feeling?
Okay, find that inside. The rest of you pure beauty or pure love. Okay let this be smooth and
be aware of the individual. The Kathy, the Lee, the
Paul, who is experiencing it at the same time. Can you hold both? No big switch in between one or the other. Let your view contain the individual who is enjoying that feeling as well. If you were able to do
it, show me your hand. Okay, a little over half, super. All right. Good. Because that’s what you’re doing. That’s what you’re doing, you’re hanging out in pure consciousness, you’re in your divine being and there is space also for
the other lens of perception to be activated at the same time, great. The thing with pure consciousness, pure being you could say here too. This is aware of itself. There’s a sense of existing. When you go into that pure place, there’s a sense of
existing, – that something is. It’s just a sense of existing. Can you find the sense of existing inside yourself right now? Just like, yeah, I know I exist. Can you find where that’s…. okay, go deeper than that. Can you see that that’s just a belief. Belief is too strong a word, belief is too much in this realm. Can you see that that’s a frequency and can you go underneath it. Yes, I got a few nods. Can you go where existence isn’t. And it’s not that something doesn’t exist, it’s like the whole
existence thing, uh-uh, null and void, it doesn’t show up there. Good. When you scoot deeper than existence, I believe that that’s called
nonbeing in Buddhist territory, is there’s Buddhists there. Somebody’s told me, oh
yeah, that’s nonbeing. Because it’s non – it’s neither. Just want to throw in that term. – [Audience Member] Would you also call it pure potentiality? (mumbles) but there’s nothing there? – Okay, the pure potentiality.. pure potentiality exists
where space is at its finest. Okay, we’re looking at
time and space.. keep going Jac. Time and space is you know – Wednesday evening, very valid,
in a room, blah de blah. S-P-A-C-E, just one E. Okay, time and space is valid. Time breaks down and we
still have space here, that’s why there’s spaciousness. So many people experience
the spaciousness. You know when you drop
in and it’s spacious? No time here. It’s like ‘I was meditating for 40 minutes, it felt like 3,
what the heck happened, where’d that go? You know that scenario? Time is gone in the non dual. But space is still here, so
it feels like spaciousness. The space will continue down
as far as potentiality. Because space and potentiality
are coming together. Because as potentiality rolls out, the context that it comes with is space. So this is where space starts. So a way of going deeper
than pure potentiality is to see through space. See through space – the concept of space. – [Audience Member] Did you say
see through or sink through? – See through, yeah. It’s like finding the
place inside you where, oh shoot, space is a concept
but it’s a very early one. It’s very raw, it’s one
of the raw ingredients before the cake of the universe is baked. We’re looking at an egg
as opposed to a souffle. Raw, raw, raw stuff. Raw ingredients that make the
universe appear as it does. You’ll find those together –
space and pure potentiality. The invitation is, can
you see through them? Can you go deeper than space? And it’s not like you’re going someplace, it’s like your chucking out of space. You can say ‘deeper than that. That works for some. There is the sense of spaciousness,
okay, now deeper than that. There’s no other concept
that you can add in there. There’s a few lost looking faces but I’m going to keep going. The one thing that happens
in the non dual teachings is that we go from this false
identity here of the me myself, (why am I putting two Es on
everything), false identity. And then we can this the real
identity, the real self. This is who you really are. If you’re going to go
deeper than these teachings, I’m afraid that identity
would be seen to be B.S. Identity itself, what the heck
do you want to drag that for? So in a way we swap out the
false for the real identity. You are the essence, you
are pure consciousness, you are the Absolute,
that’s your true nature. Would it be all right if
you weren’t anything at all? because you’re not
anything at all actually. But we have this stepping stone. It’s much easier to swap
out the false identity for the true identity, but it’s just a stepping stone. And the non dual goes that far. The non dual does not
throw out the identity with the Absolute. It says that’s your true nature. That’s fine, that’s
enlightenment, that’s awakening. Now we’re looking at liberation. – [Audience Member] So
consciousness with an object, consciousness without an object. – Yeah, but consciousness
itself is just a concept. – [Audience Member] Yeah,
and then prior to that– – Prior to consciousness.

1 thought on “The Nondual Trap Workshop at SAND 2018 with Jac O’ Keeffe. Part 4 (with subtitles)

  • Polarity. Seeing the dual, seeing the non-dual. How much more dual can one get? The neo-advaita movement is nothing more than wrestling with that which is beyond language using language. It is having a good time pretending that one is engaged in deep thoughts, surrounded by like minded fellows. The duality of making the choice attending gatherings like this is better than talking baseball. And the so called teacher is lost in the impossibility to teach about it but having the strong urge to do so no matter what.

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